Quad copters and Drones

[Aforbit]

Hello AP,

SO... I was in brooks store( expensive version of radio shack) at my local mall and I saw a remote controlled quad copter that could give a live video feed and transmit them via Wi-Fi to your wireless device and could fly out to 80M (depending on Wi-Fi ) Found on it on the web here http://www.xheli.com/walkera-w100s-rtf-24g-devo4.html

I think the factor that you could make some kick a$$ videos and seeing troop movements would be very cool, but you know you're gonna have noobs shooting at it and who knows what kind of dmg it will take when a few 100 bb's are hiting it. Might be fun in CQB arenas too.

So my question for you guys is what do you think of the viability of using something like thing on the airsoft field?

[Matt]

I've thought about hiring a professional aerial photography company to come and shoot at an OP event, but they're expensive. The commercial rigs people use are often $10,000, but they are durable enough to fit a full sized camera. It's actually illegal to sell aerial photography services commercially, which I thought was interesting. There's federal regulation on it, I'm not sure if it's the privacy concern or the concern that a giant heavy piece of equipment will fall on somebody's head and crush their skull. Probably both. Yet still, there are companies who do it.

On a smaller scale, you could fly a much smaller copter with a GoPro, but getting it lined up correctly could be challenge - and knowing what's in the frame could be hard. People might shoot at it, but I think if you told them in a briefing that it's there to film them being awesome and NOT to shoot it - you'd probably be ok. The person running it should probably be 100% focused on that, not a player who's looking to for recon - you'll crash it into something, or someone.

[Alien_Hunter]

I think Matt is right these may be not be the best for airsoft but I know that other devices can't come close in terms of awesome. I mean, built in WIFI and streaming video? Gah. Check the market I saw one a while ago.

[Aforbit]

I've thought about hiring a professional aerial photography company to come and shoot at an OP event, but they're expensive. The commercial rigs people use are often $10,000, but they are durable enough to fit a full sized camera. It's actually illegal to sell aerial photography services commercially, which I thought was interesting. There's federal regulation on it, I'm not sure if it's the privacy concern or the concern that a giant heavy piece of equipment will fall on somebody's head and crush their skull. Probably both. Yet still, there are companies who do it.

On a smaller scale, you could fly a much smaller copter with a GoPro, but getting it lined up correctly could be challenge - and knowing what's in the frame could be hard. People might shoot at it, but I think if you told them in a briefing that it's there to film them being awesome and NOT to shoot it - you'd probably be ok. The person running it should probably be 100% focused on that, not a player who's looking to for recon - you'll crash it into something, or someone.

I looked at the quads that can hold a go pro but they are like 600 bucks and that's just the quad and the mount. I think the one I linked in the OP might work because it so small and will not hurt anyone if it got ran into. The idea and concept are sound but all too often I think it will be smashed, shot at or ran into by players.

I honestly was looking for more on the smaller scale myself, but very true the last thing I need is some dummy swatting it out of the air wile I am trying to get video of them, Also using it too often will let players know where other players are hiding by the buzzing of the quad copter.

The for recon I agree with you 100% that it's a silly idea and players will be more likely to shoot it or bat it out of the sky.

I think Matt is right these may be not be the best for airsoft but I know that other devices can't come close in terms of awesome. I mean, built in WIFI and streaming video? Gah. Check the market I saw one a while ago.

Oh hells ya its a very cool toy ... just think of the videos you could get with it....

[SierraTango]

Like stated, if you are going to be using it for Recon, I would suggest saving as much money as possible and getting something nice. I have seen quite a few out there doing my own research, but they can get into the $100K+ range and not a lot of people want to spend that much for something that they won't use very often.

Also, yes, it is illegal to have a commercial company come out and do the aerial surveillance, but you can do it yourself or like stated, have someone dedicated to it. You can do this yourself with a UAV under 200m I believe, but don't quote me on that. Also, the UAV must be semi-controlled through it's entire flight. Would put you within the normal RC Airplane requirements. You can also with a high end model do a complete UAV where you just get it up in the air and it does everything for you. Still, your looking into the decent price range category again.

My suggestion if your looking for something for recon, go with a ground based UGV (Unmanned Ground Vehicle) that you can put a camera on and wirelessly stream it to a person controlling it and they can comm out to someone saying where the targets are at.

Again, do a lot of research if you want it for recon... If for getting really good gameplay footage, go with something simple and cheap. Best advice though is 2.4Ghz.

[Steve]

The regulations regarding UAS are more than a little behind the times. IIRC, the platform has to be under positive control for the entirety of it's flight. The operator can't be tasked with doing anything other than flying the thing, and one or more safety observers have to, well, observe the drone while it is up. Unlicensed UAS are restricted to a maximum ceiling of 400 feet, and during daylight hours only. It can't be operated within 5 miles of any airport or an aircraft in flight, and positively cannot be operated within an urban area.

There are exceptions. If you are a public entity (law enforcement, publicly-funded S&R team, or other government group), you can operate fixed wing UAS under 25 (originally 4.4) lbs in some circumstances (not over people, during daylight, with observers, etc.). You have to get a Certificate of Airworthiness through the FAA, and the process is still sort of "in development", so if you are a university you may or may not get a COA. Homeland Security? No worries, mate.

Private companies can apply for Experimental Airworthiness Certificates. Unless you are a big business, though, good luck. The barrier to entry is money. The flights need to have observers, chase aircraft, and bunchatons of restrictions. There are workarounds in process, mostly revolving around a half-dozen proposed "proving ground" areas where UAS can be tested without having as many restrictions.

Basically, if it's a "model aircraft" flown by an individual, there are a few things you can do with the airframe on or over private property. As soon as you are a business, or flying for experiment or profit, you are looking at lots of restrictions, and lots of money, and private property isn't an exemption. The FAA is big on VFR "see and avoid" as a MUST with aircraft.

By way of comparison, UGVs are pretty open-field as long as you keep them off of public roads. As long as you are not violating Fish & Game regs, and keep a human "positively in the loop" (a human must decide to fire, rather than deciding NOT to fire like the Navy CIWS system), you can even arm them on private property.

It seems like there really are two paths to getting an awesome UAS for airsoft: Dump $100,000 for a COTS system that does most of the R&S work you could ever hope for, or dump $100,000 on a college degree and tooling and build one that does CAS as well. And, of course, the second option has absolutely NOTHING to do with why I am at PSU working on a dual-major ME / ECE degree.

[RedSpo0n]

I've got a LaTrax Alias that 'can' Carry a Gopro and it's only 150 bucks. When I say 'can' - I mean it will lift the GoPro and fly where I want it to go, but with greatly reduced speed and agility compared to it's unburdened state.

However, there are more than a handful of tiny payload cameras available for this purpose that wont affect flight performance as drastically. Matts right in that it takes a bit of skill to control whats in frame with a fixed angle camera and a not-perfectly-stable-in-the-wind quadcopter, but I could see the footage spliced with traditional Op footage for some cool angles.

The Blade 180qx comes with a 720p cam and Adjustable gyro protection, and is still only MSRP for like 200 bucks. So they can be had for a bit less for the youtube video making - but clearly not professional cinematography. The 380qx is more like 500 bucks, but has GPS/gyro/anti-colision and other stability controls specifically for GoPro carrying function.

It's also my understanding there are alot fewer restrictions on Non-FPV camera flight, but I don't run my Alias with a cam anyway, so I haven't bothered to look into it to deeply. =p

[Reaver]

So long as it was made clear at the game briefing "do not shoot flying objects" I couldn't see an issue with it....since I just finished my rpg flying targets would need to be labeled off limits

[Jester316]

So long as it was made clear at the game briefing "do not shoot flying objects" I couldn't see an issue with it....since I just finished my rpg flying targets would need to be labeled off limits

Doesn't matter. Some booger picker will try and shoot it down.

[xCASPERx]

Hey guys. I haven't started playing airsoft yet but I'm doing my research and getting ready to start. I have however been in the RC hobby for 15 years and I own a quadcopter drone that flies by video feed and doesn't require LOS. Those wifi ones are no good fyi. If you would like an even recorded or perhaps put it to use as a recon tool let me know. I can fly it about 500 yards out in any direction from my location.

[newguy]

hello everyone i am new to AP and relatively new to airsoft as a sport, but i do have some experience with RC copters and i will share what i think might be useful if attempting to use a quad copter in a airsoft event.

there are a lot of $100 to $200 copters out there that have the capability to mount a cam such a go pro, the problem is as some of you have explained is power and maneuverability, also the construction of the craft. as we all know, someone is going to take a shot at it. and at 400fps a little bb can do a lot.

most of your quad copters that are under $400 are made of a plastic or Styrofoam body and plastic props, this is to keep the weight down to use a less powerful motor for lift. that being said, it will not take much for it to be damaged, and if the prop is hit, down goes your baby.

i have been to several hobby shops and talked to plenty of people that play with the big boy toys. and they are out there.

full metal frames with carbon or metal props with motors strong enough to not be phased when a plastic bb comes knocking, but a rig like that is about 4 feet in diameter and cost around $700 not including the go pro and the mount.

but in all honesty there is a whole sport dedicated to this just as there is for airsoft, and they use cameras that are remote adjustable with optical lenses and all sorts of gadgets, they spend just as much if not more on their toys as many serious players do on their entire load outs... so unless you go to cash and the skill to fly. you might be better off trying to find a guy in the flying community to come shoot a game or even for you.

[Aforbit]

cool cool thats some good advice guys! thank you .