Why are people hatin' on hicaps?

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Postby Matt » Fri May 07, 2010 1:45 pm

sounguru wrote:I think mostly it comes down to a mind set of how people play more than it does what mags they are using. I think a better mind set for event organizers is to limit the # of rounds carried before having to return to base or respawn to reload. So as an event planner I would say no more than 1000 rounds can be carried by anyone. That would give the Hi capper 2 mags and the mid capper 10 (based on the 100 round mag). So if the High capper unloads until empty then he will spend a lot more time trudging back and forth to reload than the mid cappers which in itself is annoying and will usually curb that type of play.


Good idea, but that's easier said than done. You'll have to count everybody's magazines. Some events have more than 300 players. Different hi-caps have different capacities, different mid-caps have different capacities. Each platform loads a different amount of BBs and some vary on the same gun from a different manufacturer. So either you have to know the capacity of every magazine ever made and check every single person at an event, or you just have to throw a rule out there and hope folks honor it.

Even if you did, and everyone listened and followed the rule, you still aren't limiting the amount of sustained fire available to a standard AEG by allowing only 1000 rounds. At some point a mid-cap user will have to reload, a SAW gunner on the other hand is good to go for a long while.

Limiting the use of hi-caps is dead simple. If somebody is winding a mag, they are in violation of the rules at a game that doesn't allow hi-caps. It's easy to identify and easy to enforce. I can see why promoters like this approach.
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Postby ~Thunder~ » Fri May 07, 2010 2:09 pm

Matt wrote:
sounguru wrote:...So as an event planner I would say no more than 1000 rounds can be carried by anyone. That would give the Hi capper 2 mags and the mid capper 10 (based on the 100 round mag). So if the High capper unloads until empty then he will spend a lot more time trudging back and forth to reload than the mid cappers which in itself is annoying and will usually curb that type of play.


Good idea, but that's easier said than done. You'll have to count everybody's magazines. Some events have more than 300 players. Different hi-caps have different capacities, different mid-caps have different capacities....

Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one Matt.

As a noob, one of the things that attracted me to this sport is that it's by definition a game of honor and respect.

That's one of the first things i picked up on while trolling this forum...it's evident from simple hit calling all the way down to the bio-ammo only field requirements.
For example, i have yet to play at a field that didn't require bio ammo, but have never been checked by anyone to see if my bb's were plastic or not.

i like sounguru's idea. Making people sneak back to respawn for a reload while they're low/out of ammo would add a great element to game play.

Specify the allowed ammo count and trust that people will not be complete arse-holes like every other aspect of Ops/Skirms with various limitations.
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Postby Moparspanky » Fri May 07, 2010 2:38 pm

Maybe I'm over-simplifying this, but I thought mid-cap restrictions were in place for a more mil-sim reality (yes I know my AR15 mags only hold 30, but seriously this is airsoft, the differences don't end there) and hi-caps were allowed in skirm type events. Skirm = less serious, more fun oriented Mil-sim= military simulation. Although there are up-sides and down sides to either, the skirm/mil-sim seems to open and close the debate, it's the rules. Seems like if someone wanted to increase their number of rounds, buy more mid-caps and get some stacker mag pouches, problem solved. If I counted correctly the last time I saw Mini-Marine he had 15 mags stacked in his loadout!

Found this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft
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Postby DMitri » Fri May 07, 2010 4:20 pm

orthunder17 wrote:Sorry, have to disagree with you on that one Matt.

As a noob, one of the things that attracted me to this sport is that it's by definition a game of honor and respect.


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That'll change. It's a nice thought that this game is built on honor, but it's just a thought. Volunteer to admin a game sometime.

Also, sounguru, after your wall of text "rebuttal" you can be confident that the rules aren't in place to deter players like yourself, but that doesn't eliminate the concern. There's also nothing scientific about the numbers you presented, and doesn't account for the numerous players dubbed, "Hosers" who fire and wind their hicaps simultaneously. The poor quality of your hicaps has also already been addressed.
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Postby Mike a.k.a. Pocahontas » Fri May 07, 2010 4:25 pm

Matt wrote:What hi-cap are you using that you have to wind after every 30 rounds? Most of the hi-caps I have used can pretty much fire most of the magazine's capacity on just one wind.


in which case, instead of 12.25 seconds, it takes a full 2-3 minutes of winding per mag
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Postby Mike a.k.a. Pocahontas » Fri May 07, 2010 4:27 pm

sounguru wrote:
Matt wrote:What hi-cap are you using that you have to wind after every 30 rounds? Most of the hi-caps I have used can pretty much fire most of the magazine's capacity on just one wind.


So if the High capper unloads until empty then he will spend a lot more time trudging back and forth to reload than the mid cappers which in itself is annoying and will usually curb that type of play.



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Postby Catch22 » Fri May 07, 2010 4:32 pm

Player-A (w/ hicap) and Player-B (w/mid-caps) are both taking cover behind trees 30 ft apart. Player-A steps out from the tree firing and winding his mag at the same time. Player-A suppresses Player-B with his 450 hi-cap, till he can manuever to get an angle on Player-B and hits him.

edit: Milsim at it's best :?
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Postby Cap n pickles » Fri May 07, 2010 11:59 pm

Catch22 wrote:Player-A (w/ hicap) and Player-B (w/mid-caps) are both taking cover behind trees 30 ft apart. Player-A steps out from the tree firing and winding his mag at the same time. Player-A suppresses Player-B with his 450 hi-cap, till he can manuever to get an angle on Player-B and hits him.

edit: Milsim at it's best :?


Isn't that how they kill Taliban? With Box mags and sword kills?
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Postby GacktC » Sat May 08, 2010 3:52 am

I guess it is all up to the player's choice, Hicaps, midcaps or real caps.
Most(all) China clones come with hicaps anyway (some comes with 2), for some players, it is not so important to invest another pack of midcaps nor lowcaps.
Plus who is really pay attention during a game play who is using what kind of cap.
I have no hicap myself; even I am a shitty player, but I don't mind/care changing mag in the middle of a game, it is more realistic :)
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Postby Matt » Sat May 08, 2010 10:35 am

orthunder17 wrote:That's one of the first things i picked up on while trolling this forum...it's evident from simple hit calling all the way down to the bio-ammo only field requirements.


People get caught using non-bio ammo all the time. I've heard complaints from several event coordinators and field owners about it.

It's our job to promote honor and good sportsmanship, but event promoters have the added responsibility of being realistic with our expectations.
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Postby ~Thunder~ » Sat May 08, 2010 11:14 am

DMitri wrote:
orthunder17 wrote:As a noob, one of the things that attracted me to this sport is that it's by definition a game of honor and respect.


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That'll change. It's a nice thought that this game is built on honor, but it's just a thought. Volunteer to admin a game sometime.

Hahaha! :lol:
*bubble bursting*
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Postby Cap n pickles » Sat May 08, 2010 1:47 pm

I like High caps for those skirm's when i dont feel like reloading a bunch.

They are good for testing out new upgrades, they are fun to just see how fast you're gun shoots.

Are they milsim? No.
Can they be fun? yes.

Its up to you, Are you willing to throw down a little money to get into a little style of milsim?

Hi caps do there job, and then some. And by "then some" i mean give people that unlimited ammo feel.. which is not good.
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Postby Naked Snake » Sat May 08, 2010 6:19 pm

I'm sure this has been stated several times, but in my opinion, people are "hatin" on them because...
A. because they rattle
B. because they hold huge amounts of ammo that often prevent players from having to reload therefor detracting from the realism and
C. they often have to be wound every so many rounds which further detracts from realism and some players find it annoying
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Postby Tombstone » Sat May 08, 2010 11:19 pm

Cap n pickles wrote:I like High caps for those skirm's when i dont feel like reloading a bunch.


Here we go again! ;)
If you "dont feel like reloading" it sounds like you "dont feel like playing" IMO.

It's like getting into a basketball game but saying "Hey guys, I dont feel like dribbling today, so lets not". You're not playing basketball at all at that point.
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Postby Octose » Sat May 08, 2010 11:25 pm

Tombstone wrote:
Cap n pickles wrote:I like High caps for those skirm's when i dont feel like reloading a bunch.


Here we go again! ;)
If you "dont feel like reloading" it sounds like you "dont feel like playing" IMO.

It's like getting into a basketball game but saying "Hey guys, I dont feel like dribbling today, so lets not". You're not playing basketball at all at that point.

I see what you did there...
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