Glock 17 or P226/8 for ACE/ODA loadout?

[1SGT.Reaper]

Also take a look at this guy on the right is Delta force with Task Force Black in Iraq, check out his piece its a Sig

[Welshy McSheeplove]

they used to use tricked out 1911s but these started to jam because of the fine sand in Iraq and Afghanistan. So they switched to glocks which have a higher resistance to this

Too bad that's not at all the reason why they switched to Glocks. Seems the reason that the military does anything is because of the "fine sand" in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's a wonder the military hasn't started issuing compression shorts to stop that "fine sand" from getting stuck in our soldiers' buttcracks.

[Welshy McSheeplove]

Also take a look at this guy on the right is Delta force with Task Force Black in Iraq, check out his piece its a Sig

Hell, let's make it a double.

Those guys aren't CAG. Hell, they're not even American. Both of those guys, like these guys, are UKSF. The presence of an American flag patch does not automatically mean the wearer is American. Soldiers trade and wear different patches pretty often, especially in very tight nit multinational SOF task forces, which TF Black was.

Thanks for playing.

[1SGT.Reaper]

Too bad that's not at all the reason why they switched to Glocks. Seems the reason that the military does anything is because of the "fine sand" in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's a wonder the military hasn't started issuing compression shorts to stop that "fine sand" from getting stuck in our soldiers' buttcracks

Heres an idea for you Welshy why don't you pick up a book once and awhile (wanna hear about the 1911s vbeing traded in by Delta, read Special Operations In Iraq by Osprey) and prove your ownself wrong instead of a being a condsencing jerk all the time. From what it seems you like to be right all the time, so instead of arguing with you on either of the points which is futile because im sure you will come up with something. I'll just give up and say that if proving a seventeen year old wrong makes you happy in life, then you got some problems.
So Thanks for playing

[Welshy McSheeplove]

Heres an idea for you Welshy why don't you pick up a book once and awhile (wanna hear about the 1911s vbeing traded in by Delta, read Special Operations In Iraq by Osprey) and prove your ownself wrong instead of a being a condsencing jerk all the time. From what it seems you like to be right all the time, so instead of arguing with you on either of the points which is futile because im sure you will come up with something. I'll just give up and say that if proving a seventeen year old wrong makes you happy in life, then you got some problems.
So Thanks for playing

Lol, I'd recommend doing some more research than reading one book. I'd recommend looking in to some of the shit that Larry Vickers has written and talked about regarding the 1911, since you know, he was Delta's PRIMARY firearm's instructor. I'd recommend reading things from other Delta armorers as well. A simple Google search should give you all the info you want to know.

The 1911 was phased out in favor of the Glock for three reasons. First was a cost issue. The Glock is much cheaper to maintain, while the 1911 required a lot of constant attention by both the carrier and the unit armorers. Taken together that equals up to a lot of man hours fiddling around with a weapon that doesn't see that much use. Not to mention parts for 1911s were significantly more expensive than those for Glocks.

Second was that Delta (CAG as that point, I suppose) changed its shooting method for handguns. They started using a double tap that is commonly used in the military and law enforcement, meaning 2 center mass, 2 in the head. In a high stress situation, even with CAG guys, you're looking at 5 or 6 rounds expended to do that. If you're packing a 1911, that means you're down to 1 or 2 rounds left, which means that if you turn a corner and need it again, you're upsidedown, or you can stop and reload, giving up the advantage of speed. A Glock on the other hand has a 17 round capacity, and today CAG are using extenders that bump that up a little more to 22 rounds. You do the math. Also, the "stopping power" argument behind the used of the .45 is bullshit.

Third was that they're considerably lighter to carry than 1911s. When you're trying to cut down on weight, which is the name of the game in the military, especially in SOF units, then that is important. To carry a Glock with 51 rounds of ammunition requires 3 magazines. To carry a similar amount of ammo for a 1911 requires 7 magazines.

What I don't think you're getting, probably because you're 17 with a very limited interaction with military personnel, is that handguns are a SECONDARY weapon. Most guys don't want to pack around shit ton of pistol magazines, they'd rather carry rifle mags. If you need to draw your sidearm, you want to be able to fire enough to put down the target AND have more ammunition to engage others, which the 1911 does not offer. All this combined is why CAG switched from the 1911 to the Glock, and a couple minutes of research will support that.

Since you seem either a bit thick or a naive, I'll spoonfeed you. The primary reasons that they switched from 1911s to Glocks wasn't because "fine sand blocked the hurr durr", it was a combination of having the need for a greater magazine capacity, which 1911s just can not provide, and wanting a handgun that required less in the terms of money and man hours to maintain.

[1SGT.Reaper]

I'd recommend looking in to some of the shit that Larry Vickers has written and talked about regarding the 1911, since you know, he was Delta's PRIMARY firearm's instructor. I'd recommend reading things from other Delta armorers as well. A simple Google search should give you all the info you want to know.

Everyone knows who Larry Vickers is, and yes I agree with you on the points of switching over because of magazine capacity and the fact that they changed their shooting style, and weight is a definite concern. Also I didn't just read one book on the subject, whatever you win Welshy gold star for the day
Also thanks for the good information