AP safety/weapon rules

[Chesty_01]

This is getting fun. I love when guys on here are so passionate about a position/feeling. Believe it it jot this is the way things change.

Safety.

If we as a whole (airsoft in the U.S.) have standardized rules regarding safety, this hobby/sport will no longer be available for us to enjoy. Look at little league baseball. We all played it and guess what, when I moved from L.A. when I was 9 the rules were the same here as they are there. If you show legislature that we all abide by these STANDARDIZED rules, and it is just the kiddos who's mom bought them a replica at big 5 who is doing the stupid shit, then they will just change who can sell the items. Would you give your 10 y/o a kwa for his first gun? Nope you would go to big5.

What I am trying to say is, like it or not we all want to have more technical games, add more realism to the games and get better as an airaofters. We all have to remember that were not fight a war, so RS training has no business in airsoft. Let's have airsoft training. May it be similar yes, but when we start saying, we are training our youth in linear stack movements, the media will have a frenzy saying we are teaching kids to out maneuver SWAT teams. We don't need that for sure.

I would like to see and or create a standard training regiment for all of airsoft around the country. I am willing to donate my time to the cause. Who else is willing to do the same?

[dr.feelgood]

So to clarify: Do you* see airsoft as being closer to baseball, or RC truck racing?

*(Chesty in this case, in general as well)

[Chesty_01]

So to clarify: Do you* see airsoft as being closer to baseball, or RC truck racing?

*(Chesty in this case, in general as well)

I am not sure I get the question. I personally would like to us as a whole to be as organized as baseball.....sure would keep the bad media away. I know nothing about Rv truck racing so I can't comment on that.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

A hobby is an activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure, typically done during one's leisure time
A sport is an organized, competitive, entertaining, and skillful activity requiring commitment, strategy, and fair play, in which a winner can be defined by objective means.

Sounds like airsoft is both.

['Skyhawk']

Well we can hope that it gravatates more toward a sport. Like Chesty is saying, that would make it more legit and hopefully make outside regulators stand down.

Which brings to mind paintball. Are they being attacked by SB - 798 because those guns fire a BB. It's a big BB, but a BB none the less. There are some Paintball M4s that look just as real as airsoft guns. If they are not being attacked by this bill, are they safe because they are more "legitamate" as a sport than airsoft?

[Matt]

We all have to remember that were not fight a war, so RS training has no business in airsoft. Let's have airsoft training. May it be similar yes, but when we start saying, we are training our youth in linear stack movements, the media will have a frenzy saying we are teaching kids to out maneuver SWAT teams. We don't need that for sure.

Agreed! I am not interested in arguing about who's military doctrine is right. The way the marines do it, the way the army does it, the way police do it. Honestly who gives a shazaam. If you can compete in this game and you can be safe, I don't care about your tactics. Individual teams can instruct squad tactics and practice that themselves. I'm only interested in the safe handling of certain dangerous rifle platforms. "How NOT to be a retard" is what 99% of the newbies need to learn, and this is very basic crawl before you can walk stuff.

Doesn't have to be overcomplicated with certified grade A navy seal delta elite sniperx0r trainers who skullfucked Osama Bin Laden in the back of a humvee. Any Airsofter who practices common sense and is respected in the community is a good start.

If it's not simple, it won't work.

[Pharaoh 6]

This is a very passionate and opinionated topic. Here is some more food for thought.....

1. Instead of uping the FPS for MGs to add realism, why not drop the rifle limit to 350?

2. In regards to standardization and training for Snipers and MGs why does someone have to be paid to put effort into making this community better? I'm not saying we need to give 40+ hours a week, but developing a curicumlum and then conducting a free 1 or 2 day training class every quarter is not unreasonable.

I know nothing of sniping, but I know MGs. I for one would be willing to develop a curiculum to train airsofters how to employ these weapons systems. However, there has to be some sort of baseline requirements for attendance and it has to be an AP standard agreed upon by the most influential members and or event hosts within this community.

Example (and just an example as this would need refining): In order to run a M249, M60, M240B, RPK at an event you must meet the following requirements.
1. Be "X" years old
2. Own the weapon system
3. Must have demonstrated maturity, responsibility, and sportsmanship at "X" number of large scale local events.
4. Be a graduate of the AP MG course and have your card present at registration for said event.

The thing to remember is this is our community and if the influential members and event hosts agree to this policy there are no exceptions or bitching because you spent $500 on a MG and can't use it. You either follow the rules or find another community.

I for one would be willing to donate my time to develop and teach the course for the betterment of the community. I need no other compensation other than the support of the community, enforcement of the rules, and the knowledge that I have left something better than I found it. I'm sure Darius would be willing to help me with all this.

What do we as a community get from all of this?
1. MG gunners who are competant.
2. Increase realism and gameplay.
3. A challenge during the game play on how to eliminate a threat without having the same resources.
4. An increase in the level of safety awareness on and off the field.
5. and maybe something else I haven't even thought of?

The point is we need something new. We need to up the bar to keep the sport/hobby engaging. Doing the same old thing is starting to get boring. We have to start thinking outside the box. Many other communities are already doing these things and doing them successfully. So it's not that we can't, it's that we won't.

P6

[Ivan Daylovich™]

3. Must have demonstrated maturity, responsibility, and sportsmanship at "X" number of large scale local events.

You, sir, are an idiot.

[Chesty_01]

3. Must have demonstrated maturity, responsibility, and sportsmanship at "X" number of large scale local events.

You, sir, are an idiot.

Why would you say that? You are apparently one of the many individuals not wanting this sport to grow or succeed. Would you rather run around in the woods with a pink gun that only shoots 60 feet? Or would you rather step up and try to change the things that need changing.

My original thought process on this thread was to try and cancel the safety kill for snipers rule. Many of you have come up with some wonderful and insightful ideas. It seems to me that most of us want to see some changes made here, why are these things not instituted? If I went and formed a non-profit airsoft organization that had a solid platform of rules, safety and gameplay, would any of you follow? Say I was linked with several other organizations or chapters if you will that followed the same rules?

Hell, the freaking Hells Angels have a thousand times more organization than we do and they are an outlaw MC. Crazy!!! Stupid!!

[God]

I'm afraid I don't see safety the same as some. A welt is in no way life threatening unless you go get it infected. So, if you don't want welts, wear body armor and a face mask. If you don't care, don't. But saying no to high power LMGs over fps is kind of pointl4ess I think...

For one thing, don't call them LMGs, this isn't COD, bro.

Following that, it's not the safety issue with welts, you obviously don't understand that the two main safety precautions have to do with getting your retina punctured and having a tooth broken. If you're for it, say so, if you're not, great. With airsoft it's about being a good sport, you obviously haven't figured out that that is our biggest problem yet.

I also highlighted your errors.

Wear goggles and if you're worried about your teeth a mouth guard/face mask. What the shazaam else do you call them? They're in no way all SAWs...


AP is beginning to look really Government-ish and Democrat-ish at that. A double negative. Why? The government has a bunch of laws (seat belts, for example) to "protect your safety" when it really should be personal choice. If you want to be safe, wear your seat belt(in airsoft, a mouth guard or maybe even face mask). If not, tough cookies for you if someone aims too high.

I wear a wire mesh lower face guard for "close" games and I plan to buy an OD scarf for field games.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

Originally I was going to make the point that people who don't want to go to larger games would be unfairly unable to use a SAW, then someone got a hold of my computer.

I don't think any changes are necessary, but rather an enforcement of current rules.

[Payback]

Honestly, if you require training "cards" to use a weapon platform at a game, your gonna run off half the people who would show up. I would have never came out if i had to take training from somebody who thought they knew.

Airsoft is not real, shouldn't be treated as so. In airsoft a guy can duck a shot, run fast enough to make the shooter not lead him enough, see the bb's coming, on and on.

Tactics need to be airsoft related. If i can bum rush a bunch of 14yr olds and make them turn tail and run, i will. But in real life that wont happen. Different stuff.

It would be nice to see what a saw at under 400 fps and one at 450 fps can do differently. Would it make such a noticeable difference? Would the range and accuracy be that much better? I don't know, never ran an AEG over 400fps myself, but would like to know.

[KA-BAR]

courses i have been to.

Gunny's Scout/Sniper course scappoose 2006.

BSP scout/Sniper challenge 2007 <--- took 2nd place under Amos.

Ghillieman 2011 Stalk N shoot <--- hosted by me to better our community


i missed vaughns sniper event because it was on a saturday.



in other words i have been to every training or competition based event in the PACNW for snipers.




and it doesnt amount to jack squat. i didnt get a card or a free pass to fuckin disney land.



i think that what vaughn and i are already doing by trying to help snipers in our community to better themselves....

only problem is...they have to show up.

every event i have listed above has had maybe 10 participants at the most.

you can have all of the trainings till you are blue in the face. if no one shows up for them ....what then.


you just going to ban all bolt actions, because the majority of the retards out there that get bolt actions and demand to use them at games.... yea they dont show up to training events.....and then they whine and cry that all the bolt action slots get taken up by dudes like me....WHO HAVE ALREADY PUT THIER TIME IN.


i got nothing to prove to any of you.

[pseudoanimosity]

Following that, it's not the safety issue with welts, you obviously don't understand that the two main safety precautions have to do with getting your retina punctured and having a tooth broken. If you're for it, say so, if you're not, great. With airsoft it's about being a good sport, you obviously haven't figured out that that is our biggest problem yet.

How is this any different than the norm? I'm more worried about some jackass 15 year old running out and buying a pre-upgraded sniper off the classifieds, and shooting people from 30 feet away than I am about some responsible, TRAINED (Key word there, it means they know what they're doing) person running a 450 fps machine gun.

I am in full support of this, I often think that machine gunners got the short end of the stick, because most people run hicaps anyways, so they lose their box mag advantage.

[Pharaoh 6]

3. Must have demonstrated maturity, responsibility, and sportsmanship at "X" number of large scale local events.

You, sir, are an idiot.

PM sent.