Higher FPS for Medium Machineguns

[Darius137]

Battle Drill 1: Platoon Attack.

You take a Platoon (this is old US Army infantry doctrine) consisting of 4 squads. 3 line infantry squads (with regular fps limits and including SAWs) and one Weapons Squad which has a squad leader and two gun teams.

Each gun requires the use of a tripod to fire, and takes 3 men (or women) to operate.

The value of a weapons squad is to set them up on a perch near what you're after and lay down intermediate support by fire. This is a mid-range fire upon the target to keep them fixed so you can outmaneuver them and destroy them. As you assault an objective, you are moving closer to destroy the object and the gun teams are sitting back using accurate fire from tripods to suppress and fix (make them unable to move) the enemy.

The reason I said higher fps or bb size for MGs is because a dedicated mil-sim weapon system, put in a properly ran hierarchy or chain of command, can add a level of realism because realistically, you should fear the MG more. If it's a hot gun, you will fear it more.

[Catch22]

You can break down each weapon and caliber into why it should be a higher FPS all you want. If I host a game, You can leave your +400 FPS full autos at home. They won't be allowed

[Cap n pickles]

You can break down each weapon and caliber into why it should be a higher FPS all you want. If I host a game, You can leave your +400 FPS full autos at home. They won't be allowed

Right, and no one is arguing with that.

Dan is bringing this up for other reasons, CAG hosted Games, and Trainings which usually operate on a platoon level. I am sure any other game or promoter using the rule would see the advantage in this as well.

This is like a step in Milsim. You have a Airsoft MG, which at 400 FPS with .20g bb is a M4. In real life the gun out performs the M4 in range and deadly force. Increase the range of the airsoft version you increase its deadly (Or "Hit" force) and you have a gun with a purpose.

[Jester316]

You can break down each weapon and caliber into why it should be a higher FPS all you want. If I host a game, You can leave your +400 FPS full autos at home. They won't be allowed

Right, and no one is arguing with that.

Dan is bringing this up for other reasons, CAG hosted Games, and Trainings which usually operate on a platoon level. I am sure any other game or promoter using the rule would see the advantage in this as well.

This is like a step in Milsim. You have a Airsoft MG, which at 400 FPS with .20g bb is a M4. In real life the gun out performs the M4 in range and deadly force. Increase the range of the airsoft version you increase its deadly (Or "Hit" force) and you have a gun with a purpose.

What CAG does is up to them. However when you bring that here and start calling for sweeping changes, it affects everyone. If you want higher limits on MG's, than host a game with it.

[Catch22]

And I will avoid that game like the plague

[Catch22]

FPS changes can be a pandoras box.

Higher FPS for DMR's will cause people with SAW's to ask for higher FPS limits (after all a SAW should have a high FPS to fullfill it's purpose of suppressing the enemy) Then there are those whose who have an AEG/GBB which fires a 762/308 in the real world and, they will argue that they should be able to shoot at a higher FPS.

Eventually I will be at a game moving through the bushes and, someone one the other side will rail into my face from 10 feet away. Thanks to the higher FPS limits I can look forward to digging bb's out of my face instead of using a bandaid or two.

Learn to fire and manuever instead of camping and lobbing bb's at the other team.
Just my 2 cents.

DMR
I really think anyone who is going to go for a DMR setup with 450FPS + needs to go through a safety course, in which they will be given a certificate proving they have taken the course, and know the rules. I Also think they should be required to carry a sidearm for close engagements.

SAW
I think saws' depending on the game, should carry more rounds(thus the boxmags) to lay it out.

Example: a game where you load 30-40BB per mag, load up 600 in the SAWs and other LMG's.

Mid cap games, Load up 1200 BB in the SAW or LMG.

The support fire comes from how much BB's are going down range, not how far they can shoot. (although, that would add to it, i think it is unlikely That we should do that.) I remember at FW3 some one on woodland lit up people, they would not stop shooting until half the field was screaming.


Another note, people will complain about the rules, if you don't like the rule set, don't play.

[Cap n pickles]

You can break down each weapon and caliber into why it should be a higher FPS all you want. If I host a game, You can leave your +400 FPS full autos at home. They won't be allowed

Right, and no one is arguing with that.

Dan is bringing this up for other reasons, CAG hosted Games, and Trainings which usually operate on a platoon level. I am sure any other game or promoter using the rule would see the advantage in this as well.

This is like a step in Milsim. You have a Airsoft MG, which at 400 FPS with .20g bb is a M4. In real life the gun out performs the M4 in range and deadly force. Increase the range of the airsoft version you increase its deadly (Or "Hit" force) and you have a gun with a purpose.

What CAG does is up to them. However when you bring that here and start calling for sweeping changes, it affects everyone. If you want higher limits on MG's, than host a game with it.

No one is sweeping the idea, this was brought here for discussion. If this idea was to be used, it would be for CAG, or anyone else who wants to use the rule.

Also, if you are worried about safety. Then Train people to work them, to learn engagements, etc. Of course most of you would say that its useless and is just a hassle, so do not bother to show up to an event that would use these rules. Because there are plenty of people who want this to happen, and other teams/communities that take interest in making this happen.

[Catch22]

Train people? How am I gonna train people on the other side, not to rail me in the face from 30 feet with a SAW shooting 500+ FPS?

[Cap n pickles]

Train people? How am I gonna train people on the other side, not to rail me in the face from 30 feet with a SAW shooting 500+ FPS?

By not showing up to the game?


In seriousness, Just like sniper Qualification. M240B (NOT "SAW") PKM, PK, Etc would be trained in gauging distance's and being safe.

[Jester316]

Train people? How am I gonna train people on the other side, not to rail me in the face from 30 feet with a SAW shooting 500+ FPS?

By not showing up to the game?


In seriousness, Just like sniper Qualification. M240B (NOT "SAW") PKM, PK, Etc would be trained in gauging distance's and being safe.

Who provides the qualifications? Who enforces them? Who's to say that one groups "qualification" is sufficient for all others?

[Icepick]

I know I'm a quiet voice in just about anything... But it doesn't really make sense to me to increase the risk. To have an AEG shooting that high seems outlandish, sure it would have range, but playing it safe is better than having a person get their personal appearence seriously altered.

And I think if you ask any airsofter if they would want to play against a team based around a 600fps support gun, they would all opt out. Along with the fact that a support gun already has an advantage, why should it be able to outrange the other guns too?

Just my thoughts.

[Cap n pickles]

Train people? How am I gonna train people on the other side, not to rail me in the face from 30 feet with a SAW shooting 500+ FPS?

By not showing up to the game?


In seriousness, Just like sniper Qualification. M240B (NOT "SAW") PKM, PK, Etc would be trained in gauging distance's and being safe.

Who provides the qualifications? Who enforces them? Who's to say that one groups "qualification" is sufficient for all others?

I am not sure, but Snipers in most AP games do not need to Qualify while most 1st sword games do require it.

So if CAG requires that you take the course (This could happen monthly, at training) that does not mean that other game promoters have to abide by it.

This is For CAG settings, it is an idea to put a gun out for effect, game dynamic. I am sure Dan is just bringing this up to stir the shit (He even said it himself).

If you do not like this idea, there is no point to fight about it.

If this idea does go through (I would imagine 500 FPS, no more..) then you do not have to show up to this.

No one said we would show up to games with M240B at 600 or 500 fps when the FPS is 400. We are not trying to enforce this on General public, and we are not trying to set standards.

This is an idea based on what our team trains to. We Operate on 4 squads, 1 of which is a heavy gun squad. But there would be no point in having that when it would be the same as the next guys M4, or AK, or SAW, or G3, or FAL.

This is no more different than having DMR guns, you can get those guns to shoot like 8 rounds a sec on single fire with a 11.1v lipo.

[Cap n pickles]

@ Catch, in reference to your quote on me:

We are talking about Support Guns, not SAWs.

[Catch22]

This is very different than a DMR with a lipo. Also I would try my hardest to get any game that had 500 fps for full autos, pulled from AP on safety issues.

[Deleteplz]

Honestly 400FPS is more than enough these days. It's hard enough dealing with people that like to use that way to close on people. I prefer to have my AEG in the 350-370 area, just so I don't have to worry about it as much, I may want people to call their hits, but I don't see a reason why they should be bleeding every time I shoot them.

SAWs over 400FPS would maim people. (Okay not maim, but it wouldn't be good.) Considering you can get a SAW for around $300 these days, that means there's a lot of people that already can purchase them that in my opinion, shouldn't have them. It's the same deal with the new guys that buy sniper rifles and crap bush suits, and then don't call their hits.