Mandatory Face Protection for under 18? (NO!)

[Darius137]

Putting the "strongly recommended" on the waiver isn't going to affect parents who are already not cautious enough to research airsoft before their kids start playing.

I don't think it should be required, but possibly as a gamehost (not a community) setting up rules along the lines of "If you are under 18, a legal guardian will be required to attend the morning safety brief with you day of game" which segways into another possible topic on safety or game hosting / briefing.

[Bad Karma]

@Zeta: My comment about bannin under-18's was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

[Zeta Crossfire]

@Zeta: My comment about bannin under-18's was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

haha sorry about that, felt like I was on a roll and could of gone 5 more paragraphs if I didn't stop myself. Might be 19, but I still screw up from time to time.

[silentscope]

i am 18 and started when i was 17. my mother never knew i played paintball for three years before airsoft. my point is, not all parents know what the younger population do for fun. i dont run a mask, just glasses, but that is my choice. i got a hole in my ear to a bb but i dont complain. my choice. (and i pay my own dential by the way) but i agree about putting the recomenation on the contract. good idea.[/quote]

[dos_Santos]

It would make it sooooo easy to identify the hackers...most of the time anyways...

[Tallahassee]

Instead of mandatory face mask, why not just mandate a mouth guard? The downsides to wearing a mask are gone and the teeth still get the protection we are talking about.

I have a loose tooth from being shot too close and I've put some real thought into doing that idea myself. There is no way I will ever wear a face mask so why should I say that people under 18 have to?

As for parents, I have to agree that they should keep a mind on what their kids do, however somewhere around age 16 or 17 you should be smart enough to realize that running around unprotected can lead to some issues!

[ogrejager]

It all comes down to education. It's worth noting that the wiki airsoft document states:

The minimum safe level of gear required to participate in most games includes a pair of impact-rated goggles or shooting glasses to protect participants' eyes. If shot from at least ten feet away, there will be no damage to other body parts.

(underline added for emphasis)

In general, we as a sport downplay the danger that the BB's present. When I started playing, I had no idea they could knock out teeth. My first game, I played in a full paintball mask. I shortly assessed the risks and switched to eye pro. THEN, finally, I heard about someone losing a tooth.

I'm willing to bet that most parents don't know about the possibility. It's also worth noting that paintball did this same evolution and now plays with full masks mandatory. Yes, there was a time when players played paintball only with goggles. I was there.

If this is a valid concern, do add a warning to waivers. But Dan is right, "strongly recommending" face protection won't work. In bold, near where the guardian must sign, don't mince words, "A close shot to the mouth may damage teeth or cause scarring. Face protection is recommended."

[phiz]

It all comes down to education.

When I started playing, I had no idea they could knock out teeth. My first game, I played in a full paintball mask. I shortly assessed the risks and switched to eye pro. THEN, finally, I heard about someone losing a tooth.

That is the same path I took, now I wear a mask.

"A close shot to the mouth may break teeth or cause scarring. Face protection is recommended."

That would have been sufficient to motivate full face protection for my son and any of his friends I take to games. And myself.

[Chachi]

i am 18 and started when i was 17. my mother never knew i played paintball for three years before airsoft. my point is, not all parents know what the younger population do for fun. i dont run a mask, just glasses, but that is my choice. i got a hole in my ear to a bb but i dont complain. my choice. (and i pay my own dential by the way) but i agree about putting the recomenation on the contract. good idea.

Sorry to single you out silentscope, but the bold and highlighted words above say so much about not only this topic at hand, but really a lot of the problems in society regarding youths. How can a mother not know what her son is doing for recreation? A lot of parents are not involved in what their kids are doing any more.....for recreation, in school, in life in general.

I am a parent to a 5 year old son, and an 18 year old step-daughter, and I want to know what they are doing all the time. I don't want to be overbearing by any means, and my 18 year old knows that, but I want to be involved. Frankly, she likes that I am involved, because she knows that I care. If one of them want to try out a new hobby or sport, I am all for it. I may go with them a time or two and try it myself if I am curious. But the difference is that my parents did that with me, so I figure that is where it comes from. My parents weren't really into me skateboarding or aggressive in-line skating, but they learned about it, supported me, and made sure I had the proper safety equipment to do it.

This all falls on being a parent and taking the responsibility for your child. I have to say that I am with Nocte on this one.....it isn't my problem. It is the parent of the child's problem, bottom line.

[ogrejager]

.....it isn't my problem. It is the parent of the child's problem, bottom line.

I was with you until right here.

It is your problem. How many 15 year olds with busted teeth is it going to take before we, as a sport/hobby/whatever, start losing the big picture? Media, already mostly opposed, gets a new argument. Promoters, despite waivers, start seeing lawsuits and quitting putting on games. Fields without insurance (like Ivan's) quit hosting open games due to the risk.

Eventually, we could lose. It is your problem. Again, I've seen this before in a similar game in its infancy. All of the above did happen. Luckily for it, paintball quickly established national standards originally pushed by our insurance companies. Frankly, I'm surprised that insurers of airsoft games don't require more safety.

I don't think it should be mandatory, but right now we mostly gloss over or downplay the risks. We should stop doing that. When the information is marginalized, someone needs to make sure the parents have access to the information. Even if, as a parent, you show up and watch an airsoft game, will you really see the welts and broken teeth if you go and simply watch from the staging area once? It was once said that it takes a community to properly raise a child. I tend to agree. We all are (in varying degrees) responsible for our youth. That's why I correct their grammar.

[Matt]

Each insurance claim will drive insurance prices up and make Airsoft harder to insure. This has absolutely nothing to do with the age of the person who creates the need for a claim. Why is this an 18+ argument. Do you really think that just because somebody is over 18, they aren't going to file an insurance claim or a law suit? Think again. Who is least likely to have their own health insurance? Young adults who are no longer covered by their parents insurance, if they don't have good benefits at their job. Most of those folks are in their 20s. And they get screwed if they are broke and they have no insurance of their own. Those dental visits are expensive.

As far as I know, from the last time I got quotes, most insurance companies require full face masks, but it's often ignored by field owners and promoters. They aren't just concerned about teeth, either. They're also concerned about the ears and your nose. Getting a BB lodged in there, while unlikely, could result in a claim. These guys are putting their necks on the line by allowing you to roll with just shooting glasses.

If you all want to keep your freedom to wear shooting glasses, it's going to be an uphill battle. Good luck. Go get a declaration from the ASTM that Airsoft is safe with just shooting glasses and nothing else, and the insurance companies will change their rules.

Right now we're basically breaking the rules, from what I've been told.

[ogrejager]

As far as I know, from the last time I got quotes, most insurance companies require full face masks, but it's often ignored by field owners and promoters

Right now we're basically breaking the rules, from what I've been told.

Really? Wow, all of that put on events are really leaving yourself hanging out there, then.

Remind me to never promote a game.

[silentscope]

no problim use me as an example. my mum never cared about me. only her husband so i never had a parent to sign my consent form. but that is a good point about the young adult having bad coverage.i would run a mask but if could get behind my scope and not fog up my glasses.

[ogrejager]

no problim use me as an example. my mum never cared about me.

Apparently no one ever cared about your spelling or grammar. Once again, you make a great example!

[~Thunder~]

I like the idea.

It's not about being responsible for someone else's kid, it's about protecting us adults who are shooting projectiles at minors...

~With a name like airSOFT, i imagine many parents assume there's little risk.
~In today's litigious society I wouldn't assume a waiver offers us (promoter or player) complete protection.
~How many parents are at the field signing a waiver on game day? Anyone here ever forge a parent's sig on a "sick day" note in school? See where I'm going here?

Just my 2 cents, cheers and happy hunting.