Why? What? FPS?

[Junto]

Any one have that picture of Duke when he got hit in the eye wearing those full seal goggles handy?

Didn't someone point blank that shot to his face and that's what got it under the lining?

Also, every person here who has played at warpaint, sniperz den, or splat action has had moments of 400fps CQB, but no one seems to consider it the same thing because there's no roof a lot of the time and you can see the sky.

Exactly.

Limpy you have played Sniperdenz all the same.

MOUT is Not strictly CQB.

Thank you.

[KA-BAR]

i was standing next to duke when it happened ( i was the grader for the CQC mission they were on , it happened at a event.). the BB impacted not the ANZI rated plastic to protect his eye, but on the seal/frame of the goggles and almost blasted his eye out. duke also shot me at point blank with a TM sig 226 pistol @ PTOC in the face and also blasted the seals in my goggles and produced almost the same exact results.

http://www.vivalapla.com/forum2/viewtop ... 4e92933599

for people who write threads like this , you guys are fuckin funny as shit.

#1 my scout rifle shoots 430 fps, not 550 ( thats 170 FPS UNDER the limits, hell it barley qual's as a DMR)
#2 i NEVER take shots at under 40ft. AP SAFTEY STANDARD.



so as for your 400 FPS CQC training, do you think i give a rats a$$ if you blow your grill out and make your teeth crunchy or shoot someone on your teams eye out? f**k no. its your own fault.


and DJ .... i am not going to jail for 10 years for shooting you in the face with a BB gun at a airsoft game where....people get shot with.....BB GUNS.



LOOK OUT KIDS..... PLAYING AIRSOFT IS LIKE.....ASSAULT 2 FELONY!

That thread is pointing out the fact that you enjoy shooting people in the face and breaking teeth.

So if an Incident comes up, stating that someone had gotten shot in the teeth with your bolt action. All they have to do is bring up a copy, or just go to the thread link about what you said and the charges begin.

You intend to hurt someone, and its in a pain full, Expense way.

Please Explain your intent to hurt someone.

i have never intentionally shot someones tooth out, you are just making shit up now.


and as for prosocuting me, you are going to have to have alot of evidence that the BB that shot the tooth out, came from my rifle. good luck with that.... there is no ballistic forensics for airsoft( spherical objects, no rifled barrel, hundreds of thousands of other BBs on the field, ect, ect.)..... and unless you know theexact brand/weight/make of the BB i am using on any given day and can prove it came from my rifle, then you will have bagged and tagged ol KA-BAR......but we all know that is NEVER EVER going to happen in your or mine lifetimes...



HAVE FUN PLAYING AIRSOFT! ITS A CLASS 2 FELONY!

[Jester316]

So, shooting someone with a bolt in the face is a felony? What about they guy who shot Variable in the face with an AEG?

AEG's are more dangerous than a bolt in that you can send 15+ rounds in a second at higher velocity. You want higher limits for close quarters, but phony pony about bolts? Get your bleeding priorities lined up...

[Falcon7]

You might not even need direct evidence to get a conviction on that. A couple eye witnesses could do it. You would probably have to show some sort of malice or intent to cause bodily harm though. It's perfectly legal to shoot people at airsoft games, until you start trying to cause them harm. I doubt that's what KA-BAR was doing.
For example: you can punch someone as much as you want in a boxing match, but if they are down and you go over the top and keep punching them, trying to harm them, it's no longer ok.

[Darius137]

So, shooting someone with a bolt in the face is a felony? What about they guy who shot Variable in the face with an AEG?

AEG's are more dangerous than a bolt in that you can send 15+ rounds in a second at higher velocity. You want higher limits for close quarters, but phony pony about bolts? Get your f***ing priorities lined up...

Please wipe your tears and come back to the conversation in a civilized manner.

There are many things going on here:

1) We are not using AP rules for CQB because they are not based on safety.

2) We were posting on our team's forum because many on the team only know KA-BAR from the AP posts he make. On those posts, he regularly says he likes to shoot people in the face. That is in the title of the thread on our own forum: Intent to harm.

3) We are not as much worried about bolt actions as much as people using the highest fps weapon platform in airsoft and bragging about shooting people in the face.

4) We are not bringing this up in AP I should remind you.

4a)KA-BAR complained when Riddick told him not to go to a game based on people telling Riddick they don't want to play with someone like KA-BAR from the forums. KA-BAR complains to Alex.Kaeda who complains on AP. That is not our deal and was never from me.

4b)People on CAG who have never met KA-BAR were concerned about playing with someone like that. Someone who brags about face shots and likes to post information about using a bolt action rifle to do it. It was on our personal forums and again brought up here.




Form your own opinions based on what you see for yourselves if you'd like.

[DJ]

(From future tort files)

"and then there is the fact that there are assholes like me out there in the bushes that like to shoot people in the face, and so i shoot some poor mouth breathers tooth out and guess who's parents have to foot the $1300 root canal and post and cap bill for lil timmy's lost front tooth, or the lonley tooth fairy and his missing $5 reward under his pillow. then they try to get pissy and throw the book at the promoter or the field owner or whatever. ( chances are if its a kid, i shot out his baby tooth and the new one will grow back.....crooked!)"



Like I told you in that thread...It has been kept in a file. I just added your above post to it. More peoples mouths have put them in jail than their fists.

For the rest of you, Since this got drug over to AP, please review the entire thread to get some context
http://www.vivalapla.com/forum2/viewtop ... 09&start=0

[Jester316]

So, shooting someone with a bolt in the face is a felony? What about they guy who shot Variable in the face with an AEG?

AEG's are more dangerous than a bolt in that you can send 15+ rounds in a second at higher velocity. You want higher limits for close quarters, but phony pony about bolts? Get your f***ing priorities lined up...

Please wipe your tears and come back to the conversation in a civilized manner.

There are many things going on here:

1) We are not using AP rules for CQB because they are not based on safety.

2) We were posting on our team's forum because many on the team only know KA-BAR from the AP posts he make. On those posts, he regularly says he likes to shoot people in the face. That is in the title of the thread on our own forum: Intent to harm.

3) We are not as much worried about bolt actions as much as people using the highest fps weapon platform in airsoft and bragging about shooting people in the face.

4) We are not bringing this up in AP I should remind you.

4a)KA-BAR complained when Riddick told him not to go to a game based on people telling Riddick they don't want to play with someone like KA-BAR from the forums. KA-BAR complains to Alex.Kaeda who complains on AP. That is not our deal and was never from me.

4b)People on CAG who have never met KA-BAR were concerned about playing with someone like that. Someone who brags about face shots and likes to post information about using a bolt action rifle to do it. It was on our personal forums and again brought up here.




Form your own opinions based on what you see for yourselves if you'd like.

1) I understand that it is your game. I never said anything against what you choose to do.

2)It was dragged onto here, thus where it was posted is irrelevant.

3)I've seen more younger kids talk about head shots than I've Morgan at games.

4)Again, it was brought up. Things that are said on public forums are fair game to be used on other public forums.

4a)What the shazaam does this have to do with anything?

4B)Their concerned about people shooting others with 1 bb in the face? But aren't concerned with the potential danger of using full auto AEG's at 350+ fps at distances as close as 1 foot? Again, sounds like priorities are out of whack.

[Nocte]

There are many things going on here:

2) KA-BAR

3) KA-BAR

4a)KA-BAR

4b)KA-BAR

Form your own opinions based on what you see for yourselves if you'd like.

Seems like there's just one thing going on here. Why don't you just disallow KA-BAR from playing at your game(s)?

[Darius137]

I understand that it is your game. I never said anything against what you choose to do.

-You did say something against what we choose to do when you said we have our priorities messed up for allowing people to play against each other with safe muzzle velocities, but dislike playing with people who aim for teeth.

I've seen more younger kids talk about head shots than I've Morgan at games.

-Regardless of that, the original discussion was online because online was where people saw KA-BAR's boasts of shooting teeth.

Their concerned about people shooting others with 1 bb in the face? But aren't concerned with the potential danger of using full auto AEG's at 350+ fps at distances as close as 1 foot? Again, sounds like priorities are out of whack.

-Yes. I am more concerned about people aiming for my teeth with one shot than people properly briefed on safety who are aiming center mass with an AEG.

This is not an OP or a big game, but rather a small group with a good student-instructor ratio who are using safe muzzle velocities to train on indoor combat. The type of people who are out to play Modern Warfare 2 or get head shot kill counts are not the type that attend CAG trainings.

Until I see actual evidence of 330fps or 350fps being safe and 400 fps being unsafe I will continue to believe the evidence that shows there is no difference in safety.

Regardless of FPS we will be using safety measures such as Observers in the village (non player) and lowering the fps for the night game to 330fps.

[Catch22]

1) We are not using AP rules for CQB because they are not based on safety.

Oh really?


On a side note.. The CQB safty rules are usually for games, that are close quaters only. When playing outside mixed with MOUT we usually use outddor fps rules.

[Darius137]

1) We are not using AP rules for CQB because they are not based on safety.

Oh really?

That was worded poorly, but somewhat correct. They were based on what other areas were using and people's preferences.

I have not seen a difference in 330, 350 and 400 as far as safety.

[Junto]

HOW DOES ANY OF THIS HOLD ANY RELEVANCE TO THE FACT THAT EVERYONE WHO HAS ATTENDED A GAME AT A FIELD THAT FEATURES BUILDINGS HAS DONE EXACTLY WHAT CAG WILL BE DOING AT THEIR TRAINING EVENT?

Is it simply because of Dan's dispute against England's "nationally tested" "your eye can only handle 1 joule" rule?

How does that opinion change something we all do already?

It doesn't?

Neat.

[/thread]

[Nocte]

...people who aim for teeth...

...KA-BAR's boasts of shooting teeth...

...people aiming for my teeth...

and then there is the fact that there are assholes like me out there in the bushes that like to shoot people in the face, and so i shoot some poor mouth breathers tooth out...

As I said on your boards, Dan, a statement that says he's intentionally aiming for your face is not a statement that he's intentionally trying to shoot your teeth out. If this quote is what you're hanging on to, I don't think you've got much. He never said he's aiming for teeth.

The rest of his quote is anecdotal, at best. It does not imply intent, only one possibility based on his actions.

[john boy]

So where is this event taking place? I think you need to discuss the fps limits with the site management and their insurance.. If the event site and insurance agree then all go for CAG.. If anyone gets hurt by the fps limits then it is Dan's, CAG, Site and insurance a$$'s.
As a community we have the limits set for teams/clubs/units who are a part of the community. If CAG wants to go out and use different FPS limits and we as a community don't like it. Then as a community we ask CAG to leave and avoid the site. Or not..

Personally I will never attend a CQC/CQB that have fps limits over 330. I am totally in agreement even dropping the limit to 300 fps, as Alex been wanting to do for years..

[Catch22]

I've seen peoples wounds while playing at close ranges and at differing fps's. The higher fps guns at minimal distances are definately more dangerous.