Why? What? FPS?

[MillerSA15]

[...]a bb moving at 50 fps will still blind you.

It has to have over 1 joule of energy to penetrate your eyeball, otherwise it will just hurt you and bounce off. There was a thread about this somewhere...
And yes, 300-400fps is quite a big difference.

I'm gunna call you out on this. Prove that. Cite some research tits or gtfo

http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploa ... forweb.pdf page 5.

[quote]Airsoft devices are specifically designed to be harmless beyond a sharp sting. According to the law, the legal and scientific threshold for any projectile round to cause a wound is greater than 1.35 joules of muzzle energy. All Airsoft devices used in skirmishes produce muzzle energy at or below 1 joule, that is, more than 20% less than the defined energy required for any round to cause any significant injury.

Many people claim that an impact with the human eye, even at such low velocities, could result in the loss of the eye or other significant permanent damage. This is also erroneous since the 1joule limit takes into account the resilience of the human eye. [b]It is currently recognised by the British Home Office and forensic science service that projectiles with muzzle energy of less that 1.35j are “incapable of penetrating even vulnerable parts of the body, such as the eye, although a direct hit from very close range would cause bruisingâ€

[Nocte]

This seems to indicate to me that under 328 fps permanent eye damage is impossible, and under 3 Joules of energy (568fps with a .2), losing an eye is impossible, although permanent eye damage could occur.

Not to nit-pick, but the test results Beran posted did not prove impossibility, rather, improbability. We don't live in a testing environment where all external variables are eliminated. It's still possible (however unlikely) that these types of injuries might occur at or below the posted energies. Also, the test result isn't clear on what part of the body "a penetrating wound" was tested for. It certainly wasn't the heel of a foot (which would take considerable velocity to penetrate), but I've seen photos of airsoft guns shooting hot enough to lodge bbs in cheeks.

TL;DR version: Don't assume more than the test results explicitly specify.

[MillerSA15]

This seems to indicate to me that under 328 fps permanent eye damage is impossible, and under 3 Joules of energy (568fps with a .2), losing an eye is impossible, although permanent eye damage could occur.

Not to nit-pick, but the test results Beran posted did not prove impossibility, rather, improbability. We don't live in a testing environment where all external variables are eliminated. It's still possible (however unlikely) that these types of injuries might occur at or below the posted energies. Also, the test result isn't clear on what part of the body "a penetrating wound" was tested for. It certainly wasn't the heel of a foot (which would take considerable velocity to penetrate), but I've seen photos of airsoft guns shooting hot enough to lodge bbs in cheeks.

TL;DR version: Don't assume more than the test results explicitly specify.

Good point...anyone want to start a huge discussion on myth busters until they are forced to test this for us? Or better yet, does anyone have the expertise to make ballistics gel consistent with the human eye, AND interpret the results (like, this hit indicates a bruised eye, this hit indicates being blind for life)?

I think until that happens there are only really 2 things you can do: drop fps limits to the point that you no longer feel them, and you HAVE to be lit up just to notice you have been shot, or require everyone's gear to be THOROUGHLY tested at the door to ensure they will stop ANY shot, EVERY time. I think the latter is the best solution.

[Bush Killer]

It honestly doesn't take much to take out a tooth. I've found that tooth damage is far more prevalent than eye damage, and in my opinion, we should be just as worried about it.

A good friend of mine lost a chunk of tooth to a ricochet BB at 100 feet, and my rifle was only shooting 350 FPS, which is commonly regarded as a very "tame" velocity.

Conversely, I've been lit up in the mouth at 20 feet with a 350 FPS Echo 1 and the BBs shattered on my teeth.

I am going to start, and would encourage others to start using a standard sporting mouth guard when playing airsoft. Teeth are expensive to fix, and painful to lose.

I've also seen someone get a third nostril from a stock Echo 1 M16...

[MillerSA15]

It honestly doesn't take much to take out a tooth. I've found that tooth damage is far more prevalent than eye damage, and in my opinion, we should be just as worried about it.

A good friend of mine lost a chunk of tooth to a ricochet BB at 100 feet, and my rifle was only shooting 350 FPS, which is commonly regarded as a very "tame" velocity.

Conversely, I've been lit up in the mouth at 20 feet with a 350 FPS Echo 1 and the BBs shattered on my teeth.

I am going to start, and would encourage others to start using a standard sporting mouth guard when playing airsoft. Teeth are expensive to fix, and painful to lose.

I've also seen someone get a third nostril from a stock Echo 1 M16...

I have been buying, testing, and hating just about every face/ mouth protection method for about 6 months now, and finally found the mesh face masks that just recently popped up to be the best solution. They are more disposable than permanent, as they are only steel mesh, so they will dent (and conceivably eventually fail) but they stop bbs. I like them best because they completely protect my mouth and face (including while talking), which the cheap sports mouth guards don't do.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

I lost a tooth to a gun shooting under 330 (not verified) at around 50 feet, that initially impacted my front incisor (no damage), then ricocheted and broke my lateral incisor.

I believe this was entirely due the angle of the shot and very little to do with the velocity (at that point it couldn't have had much energy left).
Both of my lateral incisors are at a slight angle and I believe this played a big part.

[KA-BAR]

wanna see what a BB will do to human eye....


go boil and peel some eggs, then shoot them. the hardboiled egg is roughly the consitancy of the human eye.

[Russkie]

wanna see what a BB will do to human eye....

go boil and peel some eggs, then shoot them. the hardboiled egg is roughly the consitancy of the human eye.

Hmm, thanks for the tip. I think I might do a video of this.

[Lushes]

It's not just eyes. More people have their teeth shot out from hotter guns.

Thats very true.

[MillerSA15]

go boil and peel some eggs, then shoot them. the hardboiled egg is roughly the consitancy of the human eye.

BS Alert.

Yeah...that sounds pretty dubious to me.

[KA-BAR]

ahhhh but the sublime keyword in the quoted sentence is "roughly"....i.e. a close representation.


but the finer, deeper meanings get lost in the minds of worthless trolls, dont get sucked in phoenix.

[Junto]

Any one have that picture of Duke when he got hit in the eye wearing those full seal goggles handy?

Didn't someone point blank that shot to his face and that's what got it under the lining?

Also, every person here who has played at warpaint, sniperz den, or splat action has had moments of 400fps CQB, but no one seems to consider it the same thing because there's no roof a lot of the time and you can see the sky.

[Cap n pickles]

Any one have that picture of Duke when he got hit in the eye wearing those full seal goggles handy?

Didn't someone point blank that shot to his face and that's what got it under the lining?

Also, every person here who has played at warpaint, sniperz den, or splat action has had moments of 400fps CQB, but no one seems to consider it the same thing because there's no roof a lot of the time and you can see the sky.

Exactly.

Limpy you have played Sniperdenz all the same.

MOUT is Not strictly CQB.

[Cap n pickles]

i was standing next to duke when it happened ( i was the grader for the CQC mission they were on , it happened at a event.). the BB impacted not the ANZI rated plastic to protect his eye, but on the seal/frame of the goggles and almost blasted his eye out. duke also shot me at point blank with a TM sig 226 pistol @ PTOC in the face and also blasted the seals in my goggles and produced almost the same exact results.

http://www.vivalapla.com/forum2/viewtop ... 4e92933599

for people who write threads like this , you guys are fuckin funny as shit.

#1 my scout rifle shoots 430 fps, not 550 ( thats 170 FPS UNDER the limits, hell it barley qual's as a DMR)
#2 i NEVER take shots at under 40ft. AP SAFTEY STANDARD.



so as for your 400 FPS CQC training, do you think i give a rats a$$ if you blow your grill out and make your teeth crunchy or shoot someone on your teams eye out? f**k no. its your own fault.


and DJ .... i am not going to jail for 10 years for shooting you in the face with a BB gun at a airsoft game where....people get shot with.....BB GUNS.



LOOK OUT KIDS..... PLAYING AIRSOFT IS LIKE.....ASSAULT 2 FELONY!

That thread is pointing out the fact that you enjoy shooting people in the face and breaking teeth.

So if an Incident comes up, stating that someone had gotten shot in the teeth with your bolt action. All they have to do is bring up a copy, or just go to the thread link about what you said and the charges begin.

You intend to hurt someone, and its in a pain full, Expense way.

Please Explain your intent to hurt someone.

[Darius137]

Here is an image of how we believe:


Notice that what we believe is not always what is true? I recommend many of you go out there and challenge what you have as beliefs to sound reasoning. You'll find that many of what you used to think are beliefs--even core beliefs--are just opinions you've had long enough to make you think they are based in reality.

The airsoft community at large believes that because we've been using 330 or 350fps as our standard because of some sort of safety reasoning. But it really just hurts more.

We're only using the MOUT or village area for part of the second day of training, and not everyone we play with has a 330fps weapon. If you don't like the idea of a weapon stinging when it shoots you, then you can wait out that part of the day or just not enter or get near any buildings.