The sad thing is, I understand their position.

[Solid]

Oh well. New fields are nice and all, but our airsoft universe will still keep turning with the denial of one new field. We still got a few left, we can't complain too much. And hell guys, if we WEREN'T sex obsessed, baby punching asshats, then this place would seriously be lacking in personality. It's who we are, and on top of that, its the bleeding INTERNET.

[Rentax]

I'm going to put my two (very long) cents in here:

I DO feel that Alex's Public Service Announcement has merit. I feel that there is a simple ideal our community lacks, a sense of community.
We are all brought together because we all think that airsoft is an amazing game. AP was selected early on as a hub for airsoft events, airsoft related talk and information. And as the years passed Matt and his team have done, the community AP has helped bring together, a favor by supplying us with a place to talk about both airsoft and other worldly related things. Instead of being brought together by this hub, we argue, squabble, phony pony, moan, use tons of sarcasm, name calling, and more. As we break up into teams, we make those teams less about the game, and more about personal attacks on each other, each others teams. We don't look or act like a community and from an outsiders point of view I am certain we look like our own little world at war...
I understand that part of this has to do with the nature of the game, but to be fair to the community and frankly honest with ourselves, a majority of the way we as a community act on the forums is, rude, petty, and quite deserving of the disinterest/mistrust of outsiders.

I agree with others in wondering what it was specifically that has driven them away because without know the specifics it's hard for us to try and change for the better... And I agree with Matt, it's better that people know what they are getting into and if they can't handle the type of "community" we are, then it is better it happen before we are at their site and under their scrutiny. However these are also in some small way excuses to remain the same, disjointed, angry, community that we are today. I'm proud that I play airsoft, and I'm proud to be part of the AP community, I wear an AP patch on my daily use backpack, and when I see AP members that I recognize in public, I make it a point to say hello to them (I hope you all do the same to me) To me it's all part of being in this community both on the field and off the field.

However the forums seem to be a different place entirely. A place where people believe that their words have no measure because they are faceless avatars. A place where people sling crap like chimps, and then get defensive when they seem to have enrage a large group of people... When in reality people should be a bit more cautious because majority of the community should come to the defense FOR a majority of the community. When a member of my team seems to step out of line on the forums I try and keep them in check. When my team leader go on rants about other members within the community I try and play devils advocate and show him that maybe it looks different form another point of view. That doesn't make me right, but it makes me a member of this community. I know we don't all have teams, and we don't all have someone else to keep us in check, but why rely on others to keep yourself in check? If someone does call you on something you have done/said, try to look at it from their point of view. Try and see how what you said may have not been what you meant, or the way you said it may have been a bit more direct than someone else may have been ready for. If some one attacks you, let it go, because if you want to BE a member of the community, then you have to ACT like a member of the community. When others see that you are ready to be a valued member by acting like a valued member of the community they will come to your defense and you won't have to get in an argument over who has the bigger tool.

Whether or not you like it AP is a large part of the airsoft community in our area. It is visited not only by airsofters from the our general area, but for the greater pacific northwest, the United States, and also from all over the world. AP spreads our games, our ideas, our photos, our videos, and all of the great aspects that the we bring to the game of airsoft. Unfortunately it also spreads all the spite, abusive language, arrogant rants, and just poor behavior to the eyes of those same people.

In closing: To better ourselves as a whole, we have to start with ourselves as individuals. I'm going to start with me.

[Solid]

In closing: To better ourselves as a whole, we have to start with ourselves as individuals. I'm going to start with me.

Damn. Well, if your working on making yourself better, that means I gotta work on being better myself. For the community!

[Juicemachine]

Im interested in specific examples that make them not want to be associated with this community.

As am I.

EDIT: I'm not saying I can blame them. We've all been guilty of various douchebaggery that could make any sane-minded people want to stay as far away as possible.

It's all the 14 year olds constantly talking about cross dressing and homosexuality.

I don't talk about cross-dressing and homosexuality. You all don't know me, so I don't post that stuff on AP. And nobody can get away with anything on ASF. I got a 3-day ban for saying "Suck it."....

heh, I was making a direct mention of Juicemachine.

True, but my postings about homosexuality and crossdressing pictars were almost all in Off Topic. You're right though, I'm as guilty as anyone, and I'm not afraid to admit that.

Snowman, For that reason alone I wouldn't want to me a member of ASF (no offense meant). Freedom to express our opinions is needed, this is a discussion forum. Some of us (me included, at times) need to tone the asshaddery down at times, for sure, but this community is fun, and to have it change for the sake of PR would be crushing.


Rentax, I couldn't agree more, we ARE a community, but there are some people here who aren't interested in being a part of the community, but remain here to troll and tool around.


Now, I'm going to tell y'all a little story, and it doesn't get my post deleted, as it really shouldn't. I'm not going to name names or make any personal attacks, but I'm not going to be nice or PC either. If anybody, mod or not, has an issue with this, please PM me and we can resolve it like big boys.

I used to be on a team. I joined in early 2009, during it's proverbial "rebirth". It was a great time at first, with amusing antics, poking fun at larger, better-established teams, and general shenanigans at first, while numbers were small. Soon after, the team grew dramatically, and the antics continued. We were no longer a small group picking on a larger one, we were a bunch of disorganized kids making fun of people a lot older than us, who knew a lot more about this game. The antics toned down somewhat, but people were still bitter and resentful of our previous doings, and rightly so. Today, the team, which I have since left, but for other reasons (some of which are to be explained in the next paragraph), is still suffering from it's reputation, a wound which was most definitely self-inflicted.


Now, that's one side of the coin. There is most definitely another: I quit aforementioned team because it wasn't any fun anymore. A certain member of the team's leadership took the game too seriously, enforced everything horribly, and generally didn't let anybody get away with anything fun, on the forums or off. He made airsoft work, not fun. He threw fits when we lost, he bragged incessantly when we won, and he made the game about winning, not about the game itself. This sort of super-serious attitude is what makes people quit, and if this forum starts becoming as anal as he was, it just won't be any fun anymore.


So, 2 lessons:

1. We need to clean up our act somewhat, as we do appear rather uncouth to the outside world.

2. We can't let that kill the heart of AP. AP is about fun and fraternization, on and off the field.

I feel it is indeed possible to keep the spirit of AP alive, just in the OFf-Topic section, where people can't see it.

Rant over, thanks for reading, all.

[Junto]

Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. If they can't take us as we are than we shrug it off and keep looking. There's a lot of asshattery that goes on on AP and I wouldn't change a damn thing. Despite several of you thinking this group or that person is a fucktard, I really don't see any pot or kettle that isn't already black.

Point being, I like the way you all are. If they don't love you, shazaam 'em.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

It's not like we have other places to play.

[Solid]

Point being, I like the way you all are. If they don't love you, f**k 'em.

D'awwww! I like you just the way you are too! Your right though, if they don't like us, then shazaam 'em and move on with our lives.

[Patrick750]

reading the online posts shouldn't be considered research. I went to a game to see if i wanted to stay here or not. the people here IRL are awesome to hang with. Online not so much.

[Chefzilla]

'But god bless the Goatse!'


I'm really disturbed that you'd capitalize Goatse and not God.

We all have our issues but unfortunately because we are a community we're all held accountable for the actions of each other. Does that mean that anything will change?
I'd truly be niave to think it would but ultimately does it really make much difference?
I'm sorry for Alex that this happened like this but one door closes and another opens.

[Solid]

reading the online posts shouldn't be considered research. I went to a game to see if i wanted to stay here or not. the people here IRL are awesome to hang with. Online not so much.

You did get the forum shit kicked out of you when you first got here, your evening out at least ^.^ See? It's for your own good!

[Rayne]

Don't blame everything on the kids most of our sexual retarded monkeys are out of school, and even some people that are old enough to be in O.G.R.E., although I do not protect the stupidness of kids who take replicas to school.

[Bigfoot]

I have noticed a lot of negative attitudes at games over the last year. I see more and more people showing up to "operations" (mostly glorified skirmishes these days if you ask me) without reading the game info. Then they just run around and ignore orders from the CO and tell me to "shazaam off" when I ask them to help me take a position. A poor attitude is what will slowly degrade this community down.

I think we should all continue to have fun at games only we should practice a little more discipline. As in cleaning up ALL our trash, listening to admins and team CO's, welcoming the new people correctly and politely.
It's an individual effort. The people of this community (not event promoters) decide the quality of our games/events and our forums. Act like a fucktard and we'll have fucktarded games. Be open to some new ideas and we'll have some good/creative games (like Fallout, CQC7, Santas War.)

[john boy]

I have noticed a lot of negative attitudes at games over the last year. I see more and more people showing up to "operations" (mostly glorified skirmishes these days if you ask me) without reading the game info. Then they just run around and ignore orders from the CO and tell me to "f**k off" when I ask them to help me take a position. A poor attitude is what will slowly degrade this community down.

I think we should all continue to have fun at games only we should practice a little more discipline. As in cleaning up ALL our trash, listening to admins and team CO's, welcoming the new people correctly and politely.
It's an individual effort. The people of this community (not event promoters) decide the quality of our games/events and our forums. Act like a fucktard and we'll have fucktarded games. Be open to some new ideas and we'll have some good/creative games (like Fallout, CQC7, Santas War.)

+1

[Solid]

I'm noticing that as well. On top of that, people have been expecting ridiculous things from Op's, and when those things dont happen they just tear down the Op as a whole. But like Bigfoot said, the attitude of players seems to be "shazaam the command system, i'm doing my own thing!" which utterly breaks most events that rely on organization and structure. If people want games to be amazing, they gotta put aside their "I know best" mentality and actually follow rank structure in games, and overall just be friendly and well-mannered.

[Eudorus]

Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. If they can't take us as we are than we shrug it off and keep looking. There's a lot of asshattery that goes on on AP and I wouldn't change a damn thing. Despite several of you thinking this group or that person is a fucktard, I really don't see any pot or kettle that isn't already black.

Point being, I like the way you all are. If they don't love you, f**k 'em.

Profoundly true.