Digging In

[Junto]

I have a few questions to pose to you gentlemen.

In modern combat, how often and in what circumstances/situations do troops bust out their e-tools and dig trenches and fighting positions?

How effective are these positions at providing cover?

How do we simulate providing something with similar size and effectiveness on the field when we are prohibited from digging or building new structures?

Would positions like that be dug during periods of live combat at all or is it more of a preparatory thing?

Looking for input from people with foreign dirt on their shovels.

[congofal]

Don't know how it is now , but when i was in Desert Shield / Storm when we had to dig in , the French did the digging with bulldozers my E-tool was only used to fill sandbags as a way of adapting to the heat.

[Steve]

Granted, I have a very narrow field of experience, that being Southern Afghanistan as part of a 9-man mentor team.

We did not dig in. Like, ever.

We did build a FOB complete with Hesco barriers. That a local national contractor company put in, complete with local day laborers filling our Hescos with shovels for us. When we needed sandbags filled, we contracted it out. My role in filling sandbags was to stand around with a SAW looking pissed off and making sure that nobody screwed with our laborers (and that they didn't wander off and cause mischief,like generating pace counts for calling in arty strikes later, or getting too much intel about what building housed our intel shack, where our CP was, etc.).

When we were outside the wire, we had uparmored humm-vees, which are basically mobile fortifications, complete with CSWs. When we did dismounted operations, we put DMs up on the high ground and used existing walls and buildings for cover. If we hit a serious engagement, we went to ground behind walls and called in CAS. The 'stan is filled with random landmines. shazaam that whole "dig a foxhole" crap.

My E-tool was still covered in the same pretty black rustoleum that it had on it when I entered theatre as when I left.

[ogrejager]

Interesting how that changes. Everything I've read about WW2 says that if the guys thought they'd take fire and were going to be there longer than a few minutes, they'd at least dig a little bit. I guess that's what enemy artillery does to you?

[Eudorus]

My experience has varied. On one occasion in SE Europe we needed to hold specific ridge line and has no engineer support so out came the e-tools but that was very much in preparation to fight. I cannot digging like that under fire.

[Steve]

Times, they are a changin'.

WWII was typically fought as large-scale battles where both sides dumped a huge number of shooters into the mix. Arty fire and enemy CSWs tore the heck out of unarmored troops. Gains were measured in feet, and it was a war of steady attrition.

Modern conflicts tend to be smaller in scale. When arty is used by insurgent forces, it is either harassing fire into fixed positions or one or two tubes firing support for an ambush. Generally speaking, modern contacts are faster and more fluid than previous wars. We tend to either go on the offensive and punch through or we fall back and bring in close air support. If you are fighting forward, digging in is a waste of time and energy. If you are falling back to bring in CAS, you want enough distance between you and them that you can do it safely. Stopping to dig in lets them get closer to you. I can see digging in if you are out in the middle of nowhere dismounted up in the mountains facing hundreds of ACMs trying to overrun you, but generally that doesn't happen very often. Actually, I'm pretty sure that operations are specifically planned to keep this from happening, really.

[Eyes On]

We dug a few holes in the desert, and when we were tasked with a defense of a hill in Korea. In most places we built upwards instead of down.