Silverton Skirm May 9th.

[Switch]

I had talked to Ogrejager after the event was over, and we both talked about the same concerns. And I told him from the bottom of my heart that I was sorry. He expressed, that he had a great time tho too, and no hard feelings. Ivan is a great guy, and I'm sure he will enforce the law down more for the CQC area. So besides the point, I look forward to the next Silverton skrim.

[chucklls]

i look forward to comming to the next one.....


had team practice, so couldnt come

[Jester316]

Going to announce it again, the next event in Silverton will be OP Drug Runners, hosted by PSC. This will be on May 30th, and will be a ton of fun.

Event thread:http://www.airsoftpacific.com/viewtopic.php?t=25468

[chucklls]

ugh, maybe....

got team practice on the 31st gosh!

maybe ill tell the team that ill go practice at the OP, hehe

[Switch]

Going to announce it again, the next event in Silverton will be OP Drug Runners, hosted by PSC. This will be on May 30th, and will be a ton of fun.

Event thread:http://www.airsoftpacific.com/viewtopic.php?t=25468

WOOT!

[RebelPilot]

Gatt, if you got a problem, why not bring it up at the event, with Ivan(or myslef), rather than sling shit on forums behind the safety of your keyboard?

Well..."safety of your keyboard" is inaccurate here, as is "slinging shit." It's not like knives are going to come out or anything.

I made a point not to pick on anybody by name because it's not about attacking somebody personally but illuminating problems as I saw them. Not just to Ivan or you, but to the whole community so that we can all benefit equally. I don't even know who you are.

I was under the impression that Ivan was authoritative, since it's his field and he called the game and explained the rules (at least to the people who had the courtesy to STFU when he was explaining them.)

-The kid didn't call the safety kill thru the glass

Yeah, he did. He took out two of my teammates that way. I was between them.

-The grenades: The first one landed in the sink from what I understand, makes sense that it wasn't called.

I fail to see how that makes sense. Ivan's near-exact words were, a frag in a room kills everyone in the room. The people outside the RV were playing by those rules and so when we heard "the grenade was too far away from me" from a one-room RV there was confusion. (The grenade wasn't found to be in the sink until after the game anyway.)

Realistically, an aluminum sink and cardboard wall are as likely to stop a grenade as they are to stop an M-60. A frag--aka high-tech pipe bomb--in the Winnebago would have made the Winnebago a bigger frag. Not only would the guys stacked outside the vehicle have been fragged, the spectators would have too.

Just FYI; what really matters here is that everybody has a clear understanding of the frag rules. We didn't. I and the guys outside followed Ivan's, and in Silverton I consider Ivan's rules as authoritative over any other player or team.

-The TK kill I do not recall myself, I was the one being a tool because everyone was humping cover and NOT clearing shit out, it was f***ing boring.

Boring for the people still in the game, or for you? I wasn't bored. In any case, this being an AP forum, I recall the AP safety rules:

3. All replicas in deadpool or safe-zones have magazine out, safety on,
muzzle cap fixed. Sidearms should be holstered and on safe.

4. Do not point your replica at anyone unless you are involved in a game
on the battlefield and intend to shoot them.

I apologize if I've failed to realize there are exceptions to the rule. I take "involved in a game on the battlefield" to mean, still in the game, and the rules to be more or less inflexible.

I don't remember shooting a teammate in play.

I didn't say you did. There were about four people talking about it including the guy who was shot himself, so, it happened.

-As for the player with the eye-pro off, I don't recall when that happened, that should have been brought up with Ivan, Matt or myself. It dangerous and I know I wouldn't want to loose an eye myself.

If I knew who the person was I'd have shot that person a PM. I am not familiar with your team's command structure. (Who's Matt? Is that Switch?) All I know is that it was a PSC member, and assuming you are who you I think you are, it wasn't you or Switch. I don't know any of the other PSC players. Be aware however that you are leading random newbies by example because they see PSC as an experienced team, and they are likely to emulate your behavior across the sport as a whole.

The only real issue I saw on Saturday was that kid in a T-shirt and Jeans not calling hits.

LOL! He shot me with my spare weapon while I was bouncing rounds off his shirt. Nice guy, first time out. Probably adrenaline; I bet he expected it to hurt more.

Gatt if you have any more issues you wish to discuss, please take it to PM's.

Like I said, it's Not Personal. No drama intended but if it goes to PMs then only the people in the PMs and whomever they see fit to share it with benefit from the info. I prefer to make my observations known to the community respectfully and without deliberately belittling or embarrassing an individual. Also, I'm not assigning all the blame to PSC even though that's how it comes off. I do hold you guys to a higher standard than most, which is to say, the same standard I hold for myself, Jeremy, Ogre and other veteran players.

To be totally honest, I had no idea you/PSC were any more responsible for our collective safety than everybody else out there. I just shows up, pays Ivan my money when he'll take it, shoots people and has fun. I take his field, his rules and his safety procedures as seriously as I would at any airsoft, paintball or rifle range anywhere.

Seriously. Nothing personal. Ogre will tell you that I shoot straight. Next time, we'll shake hands or have an M203 duel or something.

No worries,

-gatt

[Jester316]

Well, it seems that most of this is revolving around me, so I'm going to step up and take responsibility. I'm not going to make excuses, just tell you how I saw things. I was the guy in the Winnebago that most of this is revolving around.

Gatt, if you got a problem, why not bring it up at the event, with Ivan(or myslef), rather than sling shit on forums behind the safety of your keyboard?

Well..."safety of your keyboard" is inaccurate here, as is "slinging shit." It's not like knives are going to come out or anything.

I made a point not to pick on anybody by name because it's not about attacking somebody personally but illuminating problems as I saw them. Not just to Ivan or you, but to the whole community so that we can all benefit equally. I don't even know who you are.

I was under the impression that Ivan was authoritative, since it's his field and he called the game and explained the rules (at least to the people who had the courtesy to STFU when he was explaining them.)

-The kid didn't call the safety kill thru the glass

Yeah, he did. He took out two of my teammates that way. I was between them.


I did try to get a safety kill through a window (I tried to open it up but it wouldn't open). The person who I "killed" didn't call himself out, which is logical looking back on it. I later shot him.

I did get a safety kill when I moved from the back of the Winnebago to the front, where I unrolled the passenger window and stuck the muzzle of my gun about 3'' from a guys head. Had I pulled the trigger, he would have been hit.

-The grenades: The first one landed in the sink from what I understand, makes sense that it wasn't called.

I fail to see how that makes sense. Ivan's near-exact words were, a frag in a room kills everyone in the room. The people outside the RV were playing by those rules and so when we heard "the grenade was too far away from me" from a one-room RV there was confusion. (The grenade wasn't found to be in the sink until after the game anyway.)

Realistically, an aluminum sink and cardboard wall are as likely to stop a grenade as they are to stop an M-60. A frag--aka high-tech pipe bomb--in the Winnebago would have made the Winnebago a bigger frag. Not only would the guys stacked outside the vehicle have been fragged, the spectators would have too.

Just FYI; what really matters here is that everybody has a clear understanding of the frag rules. We didn't. I and the guys outside followed Ivan's, and in Silverton I consider Ivan's rules as authoritative over any other player or team.

For this one, I guess I just let my pride get the better of me. We have all had that time where we wonder, did I get hit? Should I call that hit? Every single person feels that at least once. I guess this time I made the wrong decision, and I am sorry for it.

-The TK kill I do not recall myself, I was the one being a tool because everyone was humping cover and NOT clearing shit out, it was f***ing boring.

Boring for the people still in the game, or for you? I wasn't bored. In any case, this being an AP forum, I recall the AP safety rules:

3. All replicas in deadpool or safe-zones have magazine out, safety on,
muzzle cap fixed. Sidearms should be holstered and on safe.

4. Do not point your replica at anyone unless you are involved in a game
on the battlefield and intend to shoot them.

I apologize if I've failed to realize there are exceptions to the rule. I take "involved in a game on the battlefield" to mean, still in the game, and the rules to be more or less inflexible.
This I think is the part where someone shot a buddy for fun, and claimed their buddy was out. However they weren't and that person proceeded to kill me. I blamed the person who was joking around for getting me killed, as I had multiple clear shots on the person who was "out".

I don't remember shooting a teammate in play.

I didn't say you did. There were about four people talking about it including the guy who was shot himself, so, it happened.

Like I said, it was probably me yelling at the person who messed up the situation....

-As for the player with the eye-pro off, I don't recall when that happened, that should have been brought up with Ivan, Matt or myself. It dangerous and I know I wouldn't want to loose an eye myself.

If I knew who the person was I'd have shot that person a PM. I am not familiar with your team's command structure. (Who's Matt? Is that Switch?) All I know is that it was a PSC member, and assuming you are who you I think you are, it wasn't you or Switch. I don't know any of the other PSC players. Be aware however that you are leading random newbies by example because they see PSC as an experienced team, and they are likely to emulate your behavior across the sport as a whole.

Matt is Ivan's brother (goes by Bubba). Switch is just Switch....

The only real issue I saw on Saturday was that kid in a T-shirt and Jeans not calling hits.

LOL! He shot me with my spare weapon while I was bouncing rounds off his shirt. Nice guy, first time out. Probably adrenaline; I bet he expected it to hurt more.

Gatt if you have any more issues you wish to discuss, please take it to PM's.

Like I said, it's Not Personal. No drama intended but if it goes to PMs then only the people in the PMs and whomever they see fit to share it with benefit from the info. I prefer to make my observations known to the community respectfully and without deliberately belittling or embarrassing an individual. Also, I'm not assigning all the blame to PSC even though that's how it comes off. I do hold you guys to a higher standard than most, which is to say, the same standard I hold for myself, Jeremy, Ogre and other veteran players.

To be totally honest, I had no idea you/PSC were any more responsible for our collective safety than everybody else out there. I just shows up, pays Ivan my money when he'll take it, shoots people and has fun. I take his field, his rules and his safety procedures as seriously as I would at any airsoft, paintball or rifle range anywhere.

Ivan used to be part of PSC, and we are still really good friends with him. PSC also hosts events at that field, and I guess we still feel some responsibility to keep the games safe.

Seriously. Nothing personal. Ogre will tell you that I shoot straight. Next time, we'll shake hands or have an M203 duel or something.

How about pistol duels? I'm always up for some of those.

No worries,

-gatt

So, I want to apologize to anyone I might have offended with my actions last Saturday. I faltered, and I'm sorry. I hope I did not ruin the day for anyone. I look forward to next time, where I can show everyone that I'm not a giant asshat.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

I was under the impression that Ivan was authoritative, since it's his field and he called the game and explained the rules (at least to the people who had the courtesy to STFU when he was explaining them.)

I am, however Renagade is the leader of PSC so if you have a problem with one of his guys it would make sense to talk to him about it.

-The grenades: The first one landed in the sink from what I understand, makes sense that it wasn't called.

I fail to see how that makes sense. Ivan's near-exact words were, a frag in a room kills everyone in the room. The people outside the RV were playing by those rules and so when we heard "the grenade was too far away from me" from a one-room RV there was confusion. (The grenade wasn't found to be in the sink until after the game anyway.)

Realistically, an aluminum sink and cardboard wall are as likely to stop a grenade as they are to stop an M-60. A frag--aka high-tech pipe bomb--in the Winnebago would have made the Winnebago a bigger frag. Not only would the guys stacked outside the vehicle have been fragged, the spectators would have too.

Just FYI; what really matters here is that everybody has a clear understanding of the frag rules. We didn't. I and the guys outside followed Ivan's, and in Silverton I consider Ivan's rules as authoritative over any other player or team.

You are correct in how the grenades work however your logic of what the real life counterparts would do doesn't transfer over to airsoft.
I'm sure you've been shooting at trees to try and kill the person hiding on the other side or trying to fire through a bush which aren't problems in real life.
As you said the important thing is that everyone has the same understanding of what the rules of grenades are.

-The TK kill I do not recall myself, I was the one being a tool because everyone was humping cover and NOT clearing shit out, it was f***ing boring.

Boring for the people still in the game, or for you? I wasn't bored. In any case, this being an AP forum, I recall the AP safety rules:

3. All replicas in deadpool or safe-zones have magazine out, safety on,
muzzle cap fixed. Sidearms should be holstered and on safe.

4. Do not point your replica at anyone unless you are involved in a game
on the battlefield and intend to shoot them.

I apologize if I've failed to realize there are exceptions to the rule. I take "involved in a game on the battlefield" to mean, still in the game, and the rules to be more or less inflexible.

We play more relaxed than those rules. Having the gun on safety is good enough, but there shouldn't be any shooting form dead players into the live fire zone I haven't gone over this before but I will do so in the future to stop this from happening.
As for the boring part which is a problem with this scenario I will add a time limit to this scenario in the future.

I don't remember shooting a teammate in play.

I didn't say you did. There were about four people talking about it including the guy who was shot himself, so, it happened.

-As for the player with the eye-pro off, I don't recall when that happened, that should have been brought up with Ivan, Matt or myself. It dangerous and I know I wouldn't want to loose an eye myself.

If I knew who the person was I'd have shot that person a PM. I am not familiar with your team's command structure. (Who's Matt? Is that Switch?) All I know is that it was a PSC member, and assuming you are who you I think you are, it wasn't you or Switch. I don't know any of the other PSC players. Be aware however that you are leading random newbies by example because they see PSC as an experienced team, and they are likely to emulate your behavior across the sport as a whole.

Matt is my brother (Bubba on AP) and has the same authority at the field as I do.
He looks like me and we have very similar loadouts (being on the same team)

The only real issue I saw on Saturday was that kid in a T-shirt and Jeans not calling hits.

LOL! He shot me with my spare weapon while I was bouncing rounds off his shirt. Nice guy, first time out. Probably adrenaline; I bet he expected it to hurt more.

I have sent a PM to the guy he came with I also talked to him once during a game so I hope to have that situation resolved.
And yes I'm pretty sure it was his first time so I'm giving him a bit of slack.

Gatt if you have any more issues you wish to discuss, please take it to PM's.

Like I said, it's Not Personal. No drama intended but if it goes to PMs then only the people in the PMs and whomever they see fit to share it with benefit from the info. I prefer to make my observations known to the community respectfully and without deliberately belittling or embarrassing an individual. Also, I'm not assigning all the blame to PSC even though that's how it comes off. I do hold you guys to a higher standard than most, which is to say, the same standard I hold for myself, Jeremy, Ogre and other veteran players.

To be totally honest, I had no idea you/PSC were any more responsible for our collective safety than everybody else out there. I just shows up, pays Ivan my money when he'll take it, shoots people and has fun. I take his field, his rules and his safety procedures as seriously as I would at any airsoft, paintball or rifle range anywhere.

Seriously. Nothing personal. Ogre will tell you that I shoot straight. Next time, we'll shake hands or have an M203 duel or something.

No worries,

-gatt

I talked to Randal (Renagade) after his post and he now understands that it was not as harsh as he originally thought.

[ogrejager]

I'm bummed. I officially can't make the Drug Op. That's the same day as Youth Outdoor Day. I think, this year, I'm running the information booth--which is funny, because I don't know anything. Even what I'm doing. We put 750 kids through all the events though. Flipping busy day. (official thread tangent maker over)

More seriously, you guys need to play more airsoft--your panties are all in a bunch or something. M203 duels sound like fun. I say we make that an official game, then I have a good excuse to use with the wife why I need to get one! Failing that, how about pistols at 30 feet? I need to buy one of those, too. Okay, I guess that wasn't more serious. Damnit.

Ivan, I guess there is one real suggestion--a few 3x5 cards with rules on 'em for you to use at the briefing. When I was head ref at Splat Action from '89 to '92, that's what I did. I will also look into costs and figure out armbands like I said I would. That'd help some. So would mandatory dead rags, but I don't even own one, so that'd be hypocritical of me to suggest!

Randall, I've know Gatt for over 20 years. He does shoot straight, except with his replica. He misses with that a lot. This won't turn into a big deal and next time you two are on the same team, he'll cover your a$$ like...well, nevermind, you get the image--I've seen the way your team is between games, I know you get the image! I'm guessing (haven't talked to him, just guessing) that he had worries and voiced them.

Woot! What do you figure is the appropriate distance for a 203 duel?

[chucklls]

i love how people make a little thing a big deal.

you came you shoot your done. its all plastic fun.

[ogrejager]

[quote="jester316"]

I did try to get a safety kill through a window (I tried to open it up but it wouldn't open). The person who I "killed" didn't call himself out, which is logical looking back on it. I later shot him.

I did get a safety kill when I moved from the back of the Winnebago to the front, where I unrolled the passenger window and stuck the muzzle of my gun about 3'' from a guys head. Had I pulled the trigger, he would have been hit.


Oh, yeah. Forgot to add. That was me, Gatt--he'd rolled the window down enough to stick his replica out. I heard, "safety kill" and looked up into a muzzle about 2" (not 3) from my head. I took the safety kill and walked off. Thanks for not shooting me, Jester.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

...Ivan, I guess there is one real suggestion--a few 3x5 cards with rules on 'em for you to use at the briefing. When I was head ref at Splat Action from '89 to '92, that's what I did.

I got a suggestion to put up all the rules on the AP thread so that people can look over them before the game as well as explain them at the game.

I will also look into costs and figure out armbands like I said I would. That'd help some.

It'd just be colored duct tape I'm guessing $20 would cover me for a few years unless I lose the rolls.

So would mandatory dead rags, but I don't even own one, so that'd be hypocritical of me to suggest!

I think I'm going to do this for future games. I'll spend some of the money I got form admission and selling ammo to buy death rags and people who don't have any, or didn't bring any, will have to buy them at the price I paid for them.

[ogrejager]

It'd just be colored duct tape I'm guessing $20 would cover me for a few years unless I lose the rolls.

I was more thinking 3" elestic bands. That'd last forever, unless you lose the bands. And why would you want to cover yourself in duct tape for a few years?

I think I'm going to do this for future games. I'll spend some of the money I got form admission and selling ammo to buy death rags and people who don't have any, or didn't bring any, will have to buy them at the price I paid for them.

Spiffy. I keep meaning to go up to the shop and get a rag, but I never seem to remember.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

You'd remove the duct tape after the game.
But with the number of people we have and how much is in a roll of duct tape it'd last a while.

[RebelPilot]

I had talked to Ogrejager after the event was over, and we both talked about the same concerns. And I told him from the bottom of my heart that I was sorry. He expressed, that he had a great time tho too, and no hard feelings. Ivan is a great guy, and I'm sure he will enforce the law down more for the CQC area. So besides the point, I look forward to the next Silverton skrim.

100% no hard feelings here, either, and if my previous posts make it sound like I fragged the forum, event or your team, that wasn't the intent. Hope to see you all next time!

-gatt