Battlesim CQB Canceled

[danneskjold]

I think the reason behind this supposed misconception is that people don't feel that the game they paid $80 for was worth it, and that the previous games from non-BattleSim event promoters they spent $35 for tend to be more enjoyable. This builds the perception that BattleSim games are less fun and more expensive, so yeah, people will think you're pulling in cash hand over fist because they are getting more from their money everywhere else.

How many Battlesim events have you been too? Gallant Saber was the only one right? Which was arguably one of the WORST games Battlesim has put on.

Until you have been to events like Recondo or Jump to Destiny stfu, you dont know what you are talking about.
Heres what I like about period events:
Higher caliber of players. Simple as that.

Its too bad the majority of players (in WA and OR) are still stuck in their little tiny box and think that airsoft can only be dressing up in crappy replica gear and shooting plastic pellets at eachother, and thinking because they do this their hot dog size is bigger than everyone else.

[CommieHunter]

I don't see the realism or the cost as a problem. I wanted to go to this, and I was willing to drag up team of people, some of whom may not have had much CQC experience.

However, I was never given a date, and we were never told the total cost. Maybe it was posted and I missed it, but I need the date and cost before I can commit to an event. Sometimes I have something scheduled that weekend. Sometimes I just can't get that day off of work because both the other guys are gone.

Like I said, I wanted to be there, and with the group you had lined up, $80 wouldn't have been a huge problem.

I can't commit myself until I know what I'm committing to.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[edit] To BinaryPunisher, I think that you might be making an overgeneralization. I play airsoft for 2 reasons, A) it's fun and relaxing and the gear is cool B) to train for what I may actually do someday.

I have a modern kit, and I like it. I like to run around and shoot people at OPs. I even like to command people. I'll trade shooting for commanding if it'll help my team win.

I don't really want to spend a bunch of money to develop a complete 2nd or 3rd kit, especially when the replicas often have to be custom made. I don't have the time or the money, and I prefer the modern games.

I don't see myself as stuck in a box. I can see both elements of the game, but the cost of building an extra kit and driving to WA all the time outweighs the difference in a game that I'd get.

You can get high-caliber players wherever you play. A dozen guys in Hillsboro that are a select group who are picky about who they invite are high-caliber players, even if they've never been to a Battlesim event.



Let's not let this turn into OR v WA now. This is related to a specific event and not to the people running it or those not going.

[Matt]

Its too bad the majority of players (in WA and OR) are still stuck in their little tiny box and think that airsoft can only be dressing up in crappy replica gear and shooting plastic pellets at eachother, and thinking because they do this their hot dog size is bigger than everyone else.

This is a matter of opinion. Airsoft has 2 extremes.

On one hand there's the video game kids who have 10 crappy AEGs strapped to their body, with a loadout that usually involves a trench coat and dual pistols. They have the attention span of a gnat, and after about an hour of gameplay they're looking for a bottle of Gatorade (because somehow 30 minutes of strenuous activity makes them an athlete), which they'll litter on the field before they leave. They'll get bored and go back to their car half way through the game and complain about how everyone is a gay cheater. (All cheaters are homosexuals)

On the other hand you've got paranoid men training a militia in case the apocalypse happens. Let's stockpile weapons and learn military tactics in case the mexicans in our suburban Beaverton neighborhood decide to plan an assault on our houses. They're going to be on horseback like the Postman going from town to town taking food supplies after that evil Obama ruins this country and causes the whole system to fall.

Somewhere there's a happy medium.

[CommieHunter]

People tend to want watered down versions of military simulations where they can use their unrealistic rates of fire and magazine capacities to play a slightly improved paintball game.

Some true, but not all true. I don't play with real-caps because airsoft bullets don't do what real bullets do. However, I do use midcaps and standards.

Sometimes Rate of Fire can compensate for the fact that a real bullet hits your target nearly instantaneously after you pull the trigger, while a stream of airsoft pellets can be dodged or ducked away from. In CQB (I've seen it a PTOC) this is actually a factor.

However, I think there is a spot for both types of games. Chapped said it fairly well. I know that I've been to all the BSP CQC courses and competitions that I could. I didn't sign up for Ranger School 'cause I was busy that weekend. I couldn't sign up for this 'cause I didn't know if I'd be busy that weekend.

It's not that we don't want realism. It's just that, at some point, an individual who has a life outside of airsoft must realize that, at some point, it's too much time and money for a game.

That, and sometimes the dates don't work out.

[danneskjold]

[edit] To BinaryPunisher, I think that you might be making an overgeneralization. I play airsoft for 2 reasons, A) it's fun and relaxing and the gear is cool B) to train for what I may actually do someday.

I have a modern kit, and I like it. I like to run around and shoot people at OPs. I even like to command people. I'll trade shooting for commanding if it'll help my team win.

I don't really want to spend a bunch of money to develop a complete 2nd or 3rd kit, especially when the replicas often have to be custom made. I don't have the time or the money, and I prefer the modern games.

I don't see myself as stuck in a box. I can see both elements of the game, but the cost of building an extra kit and driving to WA all the time outweighs the difference in a game that I'd get.

You can get high-caliber players wherever you play. A dozen guys in Hillsboro that are a select group who are picky about who they invite are high-caliber players, even if they've never been to a Battlesim event.



Let's not let this turn into OR v WA now. This is related to a specific event and not to the people running it or those not going.

If all you want to do is shoot people, thats cool I guess. Personally, Id rather be part of an immersive experience:
Best example of this was at Jump to Destiny. It was probably 0600, and I was laying dog at the AA (assembly area - place where all the American paratroopers would meet to assemble) waiting for more guys to come in. By this time I had been on the ground for 2.5 hours, and my entire pathfinder squad had been wiped out by a platoon of Fallschirmjagers. Then I remembered I actually lived in a dorm room in Seattle, and in 12 hours I would probably be asleep in it. For about 4 hours I had completely forgotten where I was, and who I was. THAT is what I want, THAT is what I paid money for. IMO, you wont find that at a modern event.

"I don't see myself as stuck in a box. I can see both elements of the game, but the cost of building an extra kit and driving to WA all the time outweighs the difference in a game that I'd get."

Tell that to the people who fly up from CA, or LA, or MS, GA, or FL! I guess we are all looking for different things.

Im not, and I dont think anyone is turning this into a WA vs. OR debate besides maybe you. Its not like the majority of WA players love to spend $90 and go to a period event. The reality is 99% of the people in WA are just like you, and are completely uninterested.

Theres a very select group of people in WA who want more, same with CA.

[Nocte]

How many Battlesim events have you been too? Gallant Saber was the only one right? Which was arguably one of the WORST games Battlesim has put on.

Until you have been to events like Recondo or Jump to Destiny stfu, you dont know what you are talking about.
Heres what I like about period events:
Higher caliber of players. Simple as that.

Its too bad the majority of players (in WA and OR) are still stuck in their little tiny box and think that airsoft can only be dressing up in crappy replica gear and shooting plastic pellets at eachother, and thinking because they do this their hot dog size is bigger than everyone else.

Can I get a rabies vaccine on page two please? You are taking this far too personally. Calm down, I'm not attacking you personally. At worst, I'm providing unwanted criticism that wasn't asked for in the first place - but that's life.

I'm not about to spend $130 to pretend I'm someone else at Recondo School or ABC or whatever course in land nav, maneuvers, etc when I can do the exact same thing for $15. I enjoy who I am and I don't need to pay money to pretend I'm not me.

I will continue to post my opinions based on my own (admittedly) limited personal experience with BattleSim, but don't think for a second that I'm alone in my opinion(s) on the topic. Yes, I went to Gallant Saber III. I thought it was terrible and a waste of the money I spent to attend that event. Since then, from the game announcement posts hellmutt has posted, I haven't seen much, if any, of the things I didn't like about BattleSim are still in place (for example, the continued use of the airport field in Randle).

I believe I have the right to voice my opinion, and unless you can provide proof otherwise, I don't go around slamming you guys in your game threads or generally harassing BattleSim on your forums, so kindly get off my nuts.

[chapped]

Let's stockpile weapons and learn military tactics in case the mexicans in our suburban Beaverton neighborhood decide to plan an assault on our houses.

[danneskjold]

Im not taking any of this personally, this is the internet. You guys can argue with me all you want. Im not a chick, I dont need to be agreed with, validated, or consoled - and Im not going to get butthurt.

I just think you run your suck about something you have a very limited experience with.

I do think you have taken your experience at Gallant Saber and seen it as affront to you personally, and have done your best to mention how much you didnt like that one single game.

Im not saying everyone should enjoy Recondo School, or even that everyone should.

Im not saying you shouldnt talk dude, Im saying you shouldnt talk about Gallant Saber like every other Battlesim event is the same, because they arent.

[Nocte]

I'm not saying you shouldn't talk dude, I'm saying you shouldn't talk about Gallant Saber like every other Battlesim event is the same, because they aren't.

You've got it backwards. If anything, I occasionally talk about every BattleSim game like it was GSIII, which may or may not be fair, but I have yet to see much change in regards to the game threads to entice me to give the organization a second chance.

If you think the limited bit I've mentioned BattleSim in a negative light is "my best," then you are underestimating me by quite a large margin. I sit on AP all day while at work, I could talk shit about BattleSim for 40 hours a week. Not that I would, but that would be more in line with "my best."

[Riddick]

[a simple statement]

It appears to me that just about everytime a event is cencelled, it's sounds like it's our fault?

Why is that?

Am I worng here?

[danneskjold]

Oops, feel free to nitpick my wording and feel free to ignore the general gist.

Gallant Saber was a complete clusterfuck. The event planners didnt take into account the fact that players just wanted to shoot, they didnt actually want a military simulation - ie they didnt stick to the plan, they just moved towards the sound of gun fire.

The majority (but not all) of the events since then have been a "military simulation".

Im not sure what evidence you want of change. I see a lot, but maybe thats because Im privy to a lot of the details that werent posted.
Give it a second chance dude.

[a simple statement]

It appears to me that just about everytime a event is cencelled, it's sounds like it's our fault?

Why is that?

Am I worng here?

Riddick,
This message was posted on several forums. People just seem to take it personally on this one.

[Riddick]

Oops, feel free to nitpick my wording and feel free to ignore the general gist.

Gallant Saber was a complete clusterfuck. The event planners didnt take into account the fact that players just wanted to shoot, they didnt actually want a military simulation - ie they didnt stick to the plan, they just moved towards the sound of gun fire.

The majority (but not all) of the events since then have been a "military simulation".

Im not sure what evidence you want of change. I see a lot, but maybe thats because Im privy to a lot of the details that werent posted.
Give it a second chance dude.

[a simple statement]

It appears to me that just about everytime a event is cencelled, it's sounds like it's our fault?

Why is that?

Am I worng here?

Riddick,
This message was posted on several forums. People just seem to take it personally on this one.

I am not solely talking about you guys but there have been other instances from others.

[danneskjold]

Roger that, sorry for stepping on my tool.

[Riddick]

Roger that, sorry for stepping on my tool.

feel free to publicly berate me

[hellmutt]

Sorry if the post seemed to place blame on you. It was intended to express frustration and give reasoning as to why it was canceled and hopefully be transparent in the costs involved.

It was an attempt at explaining that events that cost a lot of money, cost a lot of money because they cost a lot of money to put on. It seems to have turned into a debate about whether our events are worth the money they cost. My point only was that we are not getting rich off of people which seems to be a common concern in the AP communitity.

Regardless, to have something fail and blame the players is stupid. I think there were several factors including the economy that played a part in this not taking off but I was frustrated because there is always a huge demand for CQB style play and we spent several YEARS trying to find a venue that was exacting enough for our standards. We finally got one and no interest. I guess I am trying to determine if it was location, event or price that is driving the interest away.

For instance, if the competition was $35 per player would people come? Or if it were $250 per team and you could have as many people as you wanted would that make a difference? What if we had a $1000+ prize for the winning team? (Because we did)

It digressed into a "we are better then you/we don't like you" discussion (which honestly does happen in forums on a regular basis).

So let's figure it out. Was it price? Location? Timing? Because I thought it was pretty cool event that more people would be interested in. I'm surprised it didn't take off. . . but I am not blaming people. How can we make it better?