Event Registration / Player Accountability

[Vamp]

In the mean time we (AP and APST) are hosting some events that will be exclusive only to members of established teams. Now don't get your panties in a bundle if you don't belong to a team, this is only a FEW select events and we may also allow teams to vouch for individuals. The point being, somebody is responsible for who's attending, the teams are. If we got a problem with somebody? Who are they with? Team TURD? Well then I talk to the CO of Team TURD and have them straighten their guy out. If he ends up on the admin's shit list a second time, we don't invite him back.

This is exactly the problem I feared would happen. No offense to APST or Matt is intended here but this is the problem with invite only games. I feel that I am an honorable player and I am not going to go as far as to say that I am well known or well respected but like Mini marine I have no team affiliation. I have no regular contact with any known team or its members. So now the well orginized airsoft matches are becoming a middle school club, unless your "IN" you have to know someone who is "IN" and beg them to say "yeah I know this guy he is cool." So now the three or four weekends I get in a entire year have to be spent instead of playing airsoft games that are actually worth going to trying to get in with one of these "teams" so that hopefully after I put in another 5 years maybe I can get into a decent quality game.

[Nocte]

Since this system seems to be ruffling the feathers I figured it would (Steve & the teamless folks that are actual community members), and it started as my brainchild, consider this:

---No one is forcing you to join a team. It's not as if all of airsoft is being cut off from you by having an invitational board for games.

(more importantly)
---Team leaders are in control of the usergroups for their team, which grants access to the invitational board. How they grant access to their usergroup is up to them. They may require you to be on their team, be a recruit for their team, or whatever they choose. They are accepting responsiblity for you to be in their usergroup, and if you blow it, their entire team's access to the invite-only forum could potentially be revoked. If you're dying to go to the invitational games, and you've proven over the last X years to be a solid, fair-playing airsofter, they probably don't have a lot to risk by adding you.

[Payback]

I am patiently waiting the "more details" as well. As i am a solo player, well, i'm on a team, but not a "recognized" team.

And also, i've had run in's with large well known teams in the short while i've been here that questioned weather or not i wanted to be on the same field. So, please don't tell me that because your on T.U.R.D. with 20 other guys, that you don't have problems that the members start as well as the single non-team affiliated guy. Everyone has the rotten apple.

[Tombstone]

I am patiently waiting the "more details" as well. As i am a solo player, well, i'm on a team, but not a "recognized" team.

And also, i've had run in's with large well known teams in the short while i've been here that questioned weather or not i wanted to be on the same field. So, please don't tell me that because your on T.U.R.D. with 20 other guys, that you don't have problems that the members start as well as the single non-team affiliated guy. Everyone has the rotten apple.

You aren't picking up what they are laying down here.
The system is, T.U.R.D. gets their usergroup, they go to an invite only game, they show their true colors, and BAM, they are removed from the usergroup. Yea, they get humored once, but then never again.

Also, I find it funny that every time this topic pops up, people start freaking out with the "I'M AN INDIVIDUAL DERPERATOR DON'T BAN ME FOR BEING UNIQUE!"...please folks, not every game is going to be invite only, there will be plenty of games for you to go to otherwise. If you really want to hit the invite only games so bad...join a team! Just like if you really want to bowl in a league you don't ask for an exception to let you be an army of one, you hop on a team whether you think they are your type or not!

Christ you people have an overblown sense of entitlement.

[Nocte]

So, please don't tell me that because your on T.U.R.D. with 20 other guys, that you don't have problems that the members start as well as the single non-team affiliated guy. Everyone has the rotten apple.

They are accepting responsibility for [anyone in their usergroup], and if [someone in the usergroup] blows it, the entire team's access to the invite-only forum could potentially be revoked.

Small edit, should address your concern. I'm not suggesting that all team members are 100% angels

[Matt]

This is exactly the problem I feared would happen. No offense to APST or Matt is intended here but this is the problem with invite only games. I feel that I am an honorable player and I am not going to go as far as to say that I am well known or well respected but like Mini marine I have no team affiliation. I have no regular contact with any known team or its members. So now the well orginized airsoft matches are becoming a middle school club, unless your "IN" you have to know someone who is "IN" and beg them to say "yeah I know this guy he is cool." So now the three or four weekends I get in a entire year have to be spent instead of playing airsoft games that are actually worth going to trying to get in with one of these "teams" so that hopefully after I put in another 5 years maybe I can get into a decent quality game.

Well I got news for you, this is already happening all the time. There's games, playfields, teams and such you guys have never heard of and never played. Every group has a right to either invite folks they want or just invite the whole shebang... it's always been that way.

[Steve]

Also, I find it funny that every time this topic pops up, people start freaking out with the "I'M AN INDIVIDUAL DERPERATOR DON'T BAN ME FOR BEING UNIQUE!"...please folks, not every game is going to be invite only, there will be plenty of games for you to go to otherwise. If you really want to hit the invite only games so bad...join a team! Just like if you really want to bowl in a league you don't ask for an exception to let you be an army of one, you hop on a team whether you think they are your type or not!

Christ you people have an overblown sense of entitlement.

Not going to lie: This made me laugh.

There are a lot of reasons why folks don't join teams. Could be that they don't feel like dealing with the egos on the teams in their area. Could be that they feel like they have already made their bones, sometimes literally, in the real world and don't feel like getting into pissing contests with "operators" in the airsoft community. Could even be that they are all sorts of banged up and don't feel like saddling a stack with someone who will slow them down. Heck, it could just be that they don't have enough free time to show up at team trainings to do the same stuff they have been doing for years.

It'd be a horse of a different color if the majority of teams in the community were larger than fire team size. If teams were fielding company, or even platoon sized organic elements, rather than light fire teams and squads, then it would make more sense to link up with a team for group events. But almost every time two squads go out together on a mission at any of the larger ops that I have seen, it's almost a guarantee that it's an ad hoc unit thrown together, working off of at least two different playbooks.

If existing teams can't "get it right" enough to attract sufficient recruits to maintain at least a couple of squads on their roster, it seems like that is more than likely to be a bigger source of what is wrong in the community than looking to blame the individuals who choose to participate in the community while remaining seperate from any of the "teams".

Now don't get me wrong: There are some pretty good small element stacks out there (SOTA, Dunedain, APST, and probably others that I have never worked with). For a larger element, PLA / CAG / WTF they are now is working toward getting it right, and working hard at it. Not every team is a bunch of egotistical shitbirds. By that same token, being unaffiliated with a team should not automatically imply that an individual is not good enough, or honorable enough, to be on a team. Just like potential recruits have to demonstrate that they are worth recruiting, teams have to show that they are worth joining.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

I'm for banning everyone whose not on a team. They are the problem players. With a team I can easily identify which team they are a part of and can bring up any problems with their CO. If they're not part of a team, I have no one to complain to when I empty a mag at them and they don't call hit.

[The Giggler]

I'm for banning everyone whose not on a team. They are the problem players. With a team I can easily identify which team they are a part of and can bring up any problems with their CO. If they're not part of a team, I have no one to complain to when I empty a mag at them and they don't call hit.

I'm not on a team and I call every hit that i know of.

And really in that case and you know they aren't calling their hits either call an admin/ your commander or lighten your load of ammo a bit at him

[Chefzilla]

I'm for banning everyone whose not on a team. They are the problem players. With a team I can easily identify which team they are a part of and can bring up any problems with their CO. If they're not part of a team, I have no one to complain to when I empty a mag at them and they don't call hit.

I always love sweeping statements like this.

Most of the problems that I've ever witnessed have come from either:

1. The player that just went to Big 5 and got his replica so he could play COD in 3D.

2. A couple of team's members in particular but they still represent that team. I won't mention names. Of course I haven't been to a game in a while so some things might have changed.

One of the reasons I stopped going more regularly was because of the rotten time I had on a 'team' and the way they treated me.

Ultimately, if event hosts don't want my money then I'll just take it else where.

['Skyhawk']

As has been stated before, I believe the problem lies in the lack of enforcement of the rules. It's just human nature for some people to cheat, wheather on a team or not.

I think people should have the right to go solo if desired (and I know these rights are not being put into question by the powers that be) but consider this:

Airsoft is a teamwork sport and as such, if you really want to excel in the sport it will take the commitment of joining a team and training on a regular basis. Sure you can lurk in the shadows and take out a guy here and there. But a well orginized and trained fireteam will only lose a guy or two and then out flank you and take you out.

[Vamp]

Matt and Nocte and the rest of APST,
No offense was meant by my statement. I understand that not every game will become invite only, the problem is more about quality control. As these invite only games are starting to become more prevalent on the forums event orginizers are not going to want to take the time with games that are going to be open to the public. So games similar to the Rez series will start to become more and more invite only and the public games will become less and less well put together. I am not saying this will happen all at once, I am merely stating that if this continues becoming more prevalent it could harm the sport.

Skyhawk,
As much as I really wouldn't mind joining a team I don't have the time anymore. I work graveyard 4 days a week 10 hours a day and work weekends solidly. Partnered with this the nearest feild to me now (thanks to ABT being shutdown) is nearly 1 and a half hours from me. The only time I can get a weekend to play is when I put in for it 2 months or so in advance and I can only do that three or four times a year. so if you can tell me of a feild close enough to Amboy WA and has a team that practices on Tues, Wend, Thurs, I am all ears and would strongly condisder it but I really have no time on the weekends and that is the big problem.

[Matt]

Matt and Nocte and the rest of APST,
No offense was meant by my statement. I understand that not every game will become invite only, the problem is more about quality control. As these invite only games are starting to become more prevalent on the forums event orginizers are not going to want to take the time with games that are going to be open to the public. So games similar to the Rez series will start to become more and more invite only and the public games will become less and less well put together. I am not saying this will happen all at once, I am merely stating that if this continues becoming more prevalent it could harm the sport.

I'm not offended. I might argue that the public games are already crap according to some people, and several long time veterans of this community who are on established teams are asking for something better. You may not hear all of their complaints because a great majority of them don't even bother playing anymore. They are burnt out. What we're trying to do here is put on a couple events that cater to them specifically. We aren't changing anything about public games. Most single operators will be able to be vouched for by these teams - much like single operators can join your stack at a CQC competition.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

To those who didn't catch it, I was being sarcastic. Lots of people were complaining about how only letting teams at games is unfair when nobody brought it up. Not one person (other than myself sarcastically) express a pro-team only stance.

[Eyes On]

My $.02:

I am not even a little bit interested in a governing body. Been there, done that at least twice. Both had stellar results. I won't be attending "league" games. I won't be carrying a bleeding stupid ID card. I won't be pushing the idea of joining this spin-cycle of a cluster-fuck idea to customers.

Now to fend off those who would marginalize my position on this: Everyone knows I am an asshole. Everyone knows I am not a good human being. Everyone knows I stabbed a guy once. Everyone knows that I don't really care what someone elses position is if it is not in keeping with my own. So go ahead and get your electric tears all over the boards telling everyone why they should disagree with me.

Further, this is MY opinion, and not APST's. I'm actually in conflict with members of my team on this... so yeah I won't be attending "league" invite only games which include my own team.

bleeding Drama. Can't we just shoot at each other or Gods sake?