Sniper training and qualification

[Vidar]

I know airsoft is a game but the training is optional.

Actually, the point was that you were required to complete this certification if you wanted to carry a bolt-action rifle at a Praetorian Guard game. That's my beef.

Also, there seems to be several people here that think that I'm trying to pick a fight, or that my posts are somehow off topic. I'm not just being a tool. My comments are directed at the OP, and are me putting in my two cents. It's not egotistical or condescending to offer my opinion, so telling me that nobody asked for my opinion is a totally bogus thing to say.

With that said, I'm gonna let this thread be from here on out.

[Matt]

Actually, the point was that you were required to complete this certification if you wanted to carry a bolt-action rifle at a Praetorian Guard game. That's my beef.

Also, there seems to be several people here that think that I'm trying to pick a fight, or that my posts are somehow off topic. I'm not just being a tool. My comments are directed at the OP, and are me putting in my two cents. It's not egotistical or condescending to offer my opinion, so telling me that nobody asked for my opinion is a totally bogus thing to say.

With that said, I'm gonna let this thread be from here on out.

You told them the training was a joke. That sure sounds like an insult to me. Let me read it again and apply a different tone of voice to it. Yep, still sounds insulting. If somebody jumped on a PLA training day thread and told you guys "This training is a joke," you mean to tell me nobody on the team would be offended at all?

And why have a beef with them if they want to require a training certification to use bolt action or higher FPS guns at their own games? They run the game, they can do whatever they want. They could require that everyone be able to do 30 pull ups with a cinder block tied to their feet if they wanted to. Doesn't make it any more wrong or right, each to his own.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come off as harsh or single you out. It's just that I see this type of animosity towards Praetorian Guard all the time and there's no reason for it. They have done nothing wrong. They are merely doing their own thing the way they want to. But people wanna get all butt hurt and puff up their chests with this "OH, so you guys are TOO GOOD FOR US" type of attitude. I don't understand it. If they're doing their own thing, how does that effect the rest of you?

[Cap n pickles]

Its all about Safety Vidar.

Think about it for a second, they have ranges, take your shots slow, don't pull the trigger as fast as possible. This all sounds like safety per cautions to me, and i support this.

Also, if you are good, then you get to show off your bad a$$ skills.



Is it really that big of a deal? No. If you are good enough to be the Bolt shooter, then this test should be easy.

[Vidar]

Yeah, except it's not all about safety. Re-read the original post. There's a pistol qualification. There's the cover and concealment element of the course. There's a rifle qualification. Those aren't safety exercises. They're performance benchmarks.

EDIT: By the way, this isn't me throwing some hissy fit because I think that this course would be too rigorous for me. I'm protesting the principle of it.

[Cap n pickles]

Yeah, except it's not all about safety. Re-read the original post. There's a pistol qualification. There's the cover and concealment element of the course. There's a rifle qualification. Those aren't safety exercises. They're performance benchmarks.

EDIT: By the way, this isn't me throwing some hissy fit because I think that this course would be too rigorous for me. I'm protesting the principle of it.

Some people just don't know how to do it. Really. There are people out there, that cant tell ranges, that don't know safety engagements, that do not know anything about this type of game play.

The Fact is, when I talked to Team SWAG that came down from the area where a lot of this takes place, there are a shit ton of snipers down there. He said they run the course's, and keep tabs on who is green and who is mean. It helps limit the godly amount of snipers up there and it teach's people engagement distance and how not to "Unload" on people.

It is Safety, and it does come first.

It is Safe to know the distance that you are shooting, it is safe to learn trigger control, it is safe to learn how to use your pistol, and make your shots count. Its all in this from what i read, + a little more on concealment and coverage. For 5$. Not bad.

[Vidar]

You still miss my point. I'm not complaining about safety. I'm saying that this event in particular is a proficiency qualification in for a _game_. Airsoft is a bunch of people of varying ages running around in the woods with toy guns. There are ways to enforce safe practices without turning the game into some kind of dick-comparing contest.

Think of it this way; Will having a patch that says that one completed this qualification course change anything about the person wearing it?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come off as harsh or single you out. It's just that I see this type of animosity towards Praetorian Guard all the time and there's no reason for it. They have done nothing wrong. They are merely doing their own thing the way they want to. But people wanna get all butt hurt and puff up their chests with this "OH, so you guys are TOO GOOD FOR US" type of attitude. I don't understand it. If they're doing their own thing, how does that effect the rest of you?

I didn't mean this at all as an attack on the Praetorian Guard. I don't know anything about them, and as such don't have any reason to dislike them. I don't feel like they're trying to be too good for us.

For instance, there was talk of this becoming the qualification for 1st Sword events. My criticism is about the way this course is structured, because I object to having to prove my ability to somebody else in order to be allowed to carry a certain kind of toy gun at fake gunfights. My complaints would only be more vocal if somebody proposed this kind of thing as an AP benchmark.

Anyway, to sum things up, I don't have anything against the Praetorian Guard, I dislike the premise behind the course, and I feel like even their interests could be better served by a different kind of qualification.

[Tombstone]

I'd like to think the proficiency portion of this was to make it easier for CO's at larger ops to choose who, from the gaggle-fuck of people screaming "I AM DA SNIPOR!", they should choose to fill the limited sniper roles at the event. I'd hate to go to an event where some guy who's never shot his bolt beyond 50 feet is blocking a more competent sniper out of the role.

And well, I think we can all agree that a safety course is just a sound idea.

[Vidar]

Word. On that note, I'm gonna call it a day. Thanks, Abe.

[Darius137]

I know airsoft is a game but the training is optional. It's for the new kids who know they're not totally 1337 to get some practice in so they don't get laughed at by the veterans on the field. But I stick to my comment I said on that thread where I kind of pointed out that there will be lots of 12 year olds with bar 10's there. Maybe after this training they'll realize sniping is nothing like halo and will buy a real airsoft gun.

Don't you mean 14 year olds? Because that's usually the standard for immature when people post this kind of post.

And in this instance, the training is not optional for the games they host. If you don't want to do the extra certification, you can't play in that role. Even if it's a useless certification, it will still knock out some of the R-tards who want to be a sniper and shouldn't be.

I am not a sniper by any means. I am much too impatient, and I hated my M14 when I was issued one. But are you saying that the requirements to use a weapon are bad, or they are too easy? I like the idea of safety courses, or instructional courses before you do a special job. I don't think the qualification part is that useful, but it's their game.


Real men use UZI's. I think that was mentioned in the Bible somewhere.

Training is optional, but it's the cornerstone of a real military unit, a real soldier, and those wishing to become better at their given hobby, sport or career.

[Matt]

I didn't mean this at all as an attack on the Praetorian Guard. I don't know anything about them, and as such don't have any reason to dislike them. I don't feel like they're trying to be too good for us.

For instance, there was talk of this becoming the qualification for 1st Sword events. My criticism is about the way this course is structured, because I object to having to prove my ability to somebody else in order to be allowed to carry a certain kind of toy gun at fake gunfights. My complaints would only be more vocal if somebody proposed this kind of thing as an AP benchmark.

Anyway, to sum things up, I don't have anything against the Praetorian Guard, I dislike the premise behind the course, and I feel like even their interests could be better served by a different kind of qualification.

I think you might be jumping to conclusions though, because you don't know the pass/fail requirements.

Something like this would never be an AP benchmark, because we are not a private club. 1st Sword is like a private club, they have their own field, own rules, and can set their own requirements. As a result I'm sure they have a smaller audience, however I'm sure the audience they draw is exactly the type of player they want.

[FunkyDoucheMan]

I agree with everything in this thread... But if people want to show up to that sniper training more power to 'em.

I think its actually a good thing to have this, because the game isn't fun with 50 little kids with utg l96's on the field.

[Pope_Alex_Kaeda_I]

Real men use UZI's. I think that was mentioned in the Bible somewhere.

Leviticus 28:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Leviticus 28:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, thy Uzi shall be thy sword and thy shield.
Leviticus 28:3 And thy estimation shall be of the Uzi a 30 round magazine.

[Flak]

And in this instance, the training is not optional for the games they host. If you don't want to do the extra certification, you can't play in that role. Even if it's a useless certification, it will still knock out some of the R-tards who want to be a sniper and shouldn't be.

I am not a sniper by any means. I am much too impatient, and I hated my M14 when I was issued one. But are you saying that the requirements to use a weapon are bad, or they are too easy? I like the idea of safety courses, or instructional courses before you do a special job. I don't think the qualification part is that useful, but it's their game.

I definitely agree. The great thing is once those nooberz see what is required to truly be a sniper, they get out and think it is too slow or too boring. Those who get past that then can develop their own style to make it more fun, but there are definitely things people need to know and understand before taking on the role.

[FunkyDoucheMan]

Real men use UZI's. I think that was mentioned in the Bible somewhere.

Leviticus 28:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Leviticus 28:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, thy Uzi shall be thy sword and thy shield.
Leviticus 28:3 And thy estimation shall be of the Uzi a 30 round magazine.

The only airsoft UZI Ive heard of is the Tm uzi... So why not just change uzi to KWA Mac 11?

[Cap n pickles]

Real men use UZI's. I think that was mentioned in the Bible somewhere.

Leviticus 28:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Leviticus 28:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, thy Uzi shall be thy sword and thy shield.
Leviticus 28:3 And thy estimation shall be of the Uzi a 30 round magazine.

The only airsoft UZI Ive heard of is the Tm uzi... So why not just change uzi to KWA Mac 11?

BAH! GO back to where you came from demon!