Mil-Sim v.s. Other

[Chesty_01]

I am just wanting the opinion of the community, as to what everyone likes about "MIL-SIM" verses other types of games, ie, Zombie games, CTF etc.
Is MIL_SIM liked so much due to the camo restrictions, mag restrictions, objectives, the team building aspect, or is it just because we all like to play like we are in combat.

[~Thunder~]

Face masks aren't mil-sim!!!
Sorry, had to say it.

i have nothing useful to contribute.

[Chesty_01]

NICE!!!!!!!

[Transition]

im gonna make a point of shooting both of you on saturday

[Patterson]

Everyone is going to have their definition of "Mil-Sim." According to one un-named game host, Mil-Sim was waking up at sunrise the day after a confusing, sloppy, unorganized game and saluting (if you were an Eagle Scout or in the service) the sun as it rose. Also, doing twenty push-ups if you responded to an "order" with "sir" fell into these Mil-Sim guidelines.

I'm not going to bash anymore, but having a couple restrictions here and there and constantly referring to your game as Mil-Sim hardly makes it.

[Darius137]

We've already got a huge discussion elsewhere about what is Mil-sim.

It's a sliding scale toward what you are willing to do simulating the military. At the extreme end you have 20km movements, compasses, proper fighting positions and ambushes, and uniform requirements even going as far as helmets and plate carriers.

I personally like mil-sim because I'm in the military, and the aspects of airsoft that aren't mil-sim don't appeal to me. It's just a personal preference. Some people just want to go out and shoot some bb guns. Others want the military experience. Some just hate zombies really, really bad.

[SilentStalker]

Capacity restrictions fine number of mags BS. I carry every round I can get my hands on when over seas. He who has the most bullets wins.

[Mini-Marine]

Yeah I've never understood the restriction on the number of magazines you can carry.

Make folks weigh down their mags to the proper weight and let them carry as many as they damn well please.

[Matt]

Forget all that bullshit. It's about props, explosions, vehicles, and production value. You can't simulate anything without the proper equipment, and if your stuff is cheap, the simulation will be as well. Mil-sim is about MONEY and how much of it you spend to make your event awesome.

War is expensive.

[Catch22]

http://www.airsoftpacific.com/viewtopic.php?t=30237

[Chesty_01]

I would have to agree with Matt. Also nobody mentioned an objective based event. Like at the last conflict Europe where certain people had to build certain things, calling close air support and arty rounds as well. It is interesting to see how everyone varies from what they like. I was not interested in "What is Mil-Sim, but more what people liked to see at events. The only thing I disagree with about Matt's post is the explosions and real steal firing blanks. Loud noises and simulated explosion for sure. No need to mix the two in my opinion. Would anyone be interested in Every Person having a place to be and objectives to obtain all game long? That's what I like

[ogrejager]

The only thing I disagree with about Matt's post is the explosions and real steal firing blanks. Loud noises and simulated explosion for sure. No need to mix the two in my opinion.

I'm sorry. I'm just dense sometimes. I'm not sure what you mean here. No need to mix what--loud noises and simulated explosion[s]" ?????

[Fluffy]

The only thing I disagree with about Matt's post is the explosions and real steal firing blanks. Loud noises and simulated explosion for sure. No need to mix the two in my opinion.

I'm sorry. I'm just dense sometimes. I'm not sure what you mean here. No need to mix what--loud noises and simulated explosion[s]" ?????

Pretty sure he means he doesn't want real weapons on the field firing blank rounds. because that's mixing real steel weapons and airsoft ones. That's what I get from it at least.

[Cap n pickles]

Pretty sure he means he doesn't want real weapons on the field firing blank rounds. because that's mixing real steel weapons and airsoft ones. That's what I get from it at least.

They did that at Conflict Europe....3, I think, to pretty good effect. Used it to simulate artillery strikes.

Conflict Euro trip 4, and Faction wars 3

[Manicotti Airsoft]

Manicotti Events defines Milsim as: Military combat simulation through defined Rules Of Engagement or ROE, Loadout restrictions meeting strict standards, and Weapon restrictions. The goal for Manicotti Events is to simulate real combat for Airsoft players.

When we say Milsim what we REALLY mean is Combat Simulation so every time you see milsim in this post think that the idea is to simulate combat.

1) Magazine capacity. Since the realities of airsoft mean you might have to fire 3-5 rounds in the place of one (brush that was once concealment now is cover), you can either use real capacity magazines, or what Tokyo Marui thought should have been the standard (68 rounds).
Mid capacity magazines is a step in the right direction.
2) Realistic gear and loadouts. You can always tell which gear belongs to an airsofter,You want pouches for specific things and utility pouches for things specific to that mission. You see people in large games with their hydration bladder on one side, or all of their magazines on one side, or carrying no water. a soldier. Soldier's gear is worn in. It's functional for what a real soldier does. You don't want all of your magazines in shingles for instant access, when a flap can protect them from the elements

3) Realistic gameplay.

Mission types:

Secure a bridge.
Secure a route or road. Clear a route or road for supply operations.
Knock & Talk for intel and weapon cache's
Patrol's with land navigation, hasty ambushes set up to military standards
Recce missions with teams building hide sites (for brevity's sake, you don't have to dig out a real, complete hide site) doing LRS style operations (zone, route and area recon missions.
Locate PIR and confirm or deny the existance of XYZ.
Protect VIP's in various situations.
Set up an outer cordon, an inner cordon, an intermediate support by fire, and enter a village or compound looking for XYZ.

What happened to the good old downed pilot scenario? It got played out alot like to the extent of dead, but that was 3-5 years ago, I think it’s time for some people to bring that back.

Some Folks worry about the kind of drawn out missions like this because players will complete objectives fast and will become bored with the gameplay. Unfortunately that rests on the head of the promoter to adapt and provide more.
One of the ways SOTA Airsoft dealt with that fact recently is set up rounds for their game Ash Bash 3. Each side had a set of objectives, but was only given the chance to complete 1 objective per turn, the exception being BZ Corp, who failed to complete the second objective so they had a chance to complete the second and the third in the final round.

5) Uniform standards
Lets Start having standards.
AT conflict Europe Temperate marpat began on the green flavored side and was later on moved to the Tan side. Why? who knows but it sure wasnt because it suddenly got brighter
How bout event promoters start insisting on 100% compliance for players having the specified camo. They don't now because they want more people to come to games, and they think catering to the lazy does that for them. If you are interested in hosting a "Big Silly Shoot'em up" Then that philosophy works but since this topic comes up a few times a year there is obviously a call by players for something more.
I’d like to see more events where it’s laid in stone what camo each side uses.
With the upcoming AP game OP: Thunder Strike we will see how strict adherence to a simple loadout restriction will affect turnout of players


7) Mortars and CAS. I agree with Daruis137 on his thoughts about Artilery, but only to a certain extent.

There are air strikes and mortars, but they should be called in correctly with a call for fire using whatever military you're simulating's doctrine. "You this is me" type shit, using real US maps and methods of map reading.

simulating's incorrect grammatically, but linguistically is peachy keen.

Grids on a map are fantastic ways to call in artillery support, but they DONT have to be the army grid system it can simply be a gridded map with letters down one side and numbers across the other.

I hope and pray that more events will follow suit with the Conflict Europe series and employ blank fire rifles to simulate artillery, it goes along way for placing players in a milsim mindset.


8 ) Communications. Leadership for each side (if a US style military force) should be given the objectives beforehand, and then write up (or get handed to them) an OPORD which they will disseminate to their troops. Then communications lines will be clearly designated and frequencies.

9) Respawn rules. Respawning in large games is just a matter of who runs back and respawns the fastest. You have no worry of getting shot up, because you can run back and respawn. I say use medic rules or

Mil-Sim:
Medics in place. Each casualty will have a Casualty Feeder Card, the system used by Army medics to practice in practice operations. Each card has a random injury or illness the medic has to fix. When hit, they open their card (random, and sealed) and the medic has to treat that injury. For some, it's as simple as checking him over (ABC's) and calling it good. For others, it's gauze or a fake tourniquet or IV (no actual needles or tourniquets, of course). For some, it requires a stretcher and put on a vehicle and taken to the CCP or even further back. If in "Special Operations" or BFE operations, they will have to find an open area and set up an HLZ and successfully call in a 9 line medevac on the mednet to heal the person.

Note
Prior to FW3 a certain someone showed someone else a set of CFC or Casualty feeder cards, as prep for a future event.
I had experience with a draft of these at Fear This 2. They work and can and should be employed for milsim games

Manicotti Events is currently in development of a Medic respawn system that should adequately simulate wounded players return to field. Watch for more information about that in the future



My *personal* Conclusion:
The Airsoft Pacific community is ready for these games, they are wanted, and it’s up to brave event promoters to take the steps in the dark and light the way for others!

Manicotti Events is one such Promoter