Proposed vehicle rules for AP

[DJ]

People, after every event I have gone to, there is a shit storm of posts re people unhappy with how it has gone re what happened with the APC, jeeps, trucks, UFOs, etc,etc..... Lets come up with some rules to make this understandable for everyone who participates. Please feel free to add to this ....I will see that the Head Poobah and co get this.

1. All persons must stay at least 10 feet away from any active (manned) vehicle, this is to prevent any vehicle /pedestrian accidents
2. Any exposed personnel in open vehicles ( jeeps, pickup beds etc) are subject to hit rules. vehicle drivers should not be shot while vehicle is in motion. regular vehicle windows do not count as armor. An armored vehicle is a vehicle that has been modified to resemble a Tank, LAV or APC. lexan or plexiglass windows in this type vehicle count as armor.
3. Vehicles are out when hit by one "nerf" or similar type projectile fired from a 203 or similar type launcher. No hand thrown projectiles count. No hard projectiles may be used. A vehicle hit by two nerf projectiles = vehicle and all occupants are out. If just the vehicle is out (1 hit) the vehicle may be abandonded by the occupants.
4. If the vehicle /occupants are out, they must return to the spawn point for the designated time.
Thats all for now.....please add what you think will work.

[McNair]

Generally when we've used vehicles, if you can get a grenade in, it's out. That's how it's been for 6+ years at least.

Depending on the vehicles we've also used that no one can shoot from the vehicle, you must dismount. This was mostly to save the vehicle from damage.

[DJ]

Good point re the grenades.....I forgot about that.......probably no actual projectile grenades or flash bangs

[TOP]

I think it should be left to the Event Organizer, if they want unstopable vehicles in their game...so be it. Don't go to their games if that isn't what you want.

As far as AP designating these rules.... I dunno. Standard safety / hits / outs / FPS rules yea, but getting into different scenario rules?

I understand where your coming from, but the Event Organizer should post the rules for their game...maybe a rule for AP about having to post all rules for your game when you post a thread.

[Mini-Marine]

I like the idea of requiring any and all rules to be posted in the game thread. That way any confusion can be worked out in the thread beforehand.

Another solution would be to have community agreed upon standard vehicle rules. That way the rules would only need to be posted when they were a different rule set from the norm.

[Beran]

we've usually used tennis balls for hand grenades on vehicles in the past. if you can somehow get it into the vehicle (not bounce it off of the side, but into the vehicle itself) it is a kill. that and the nerf rockets out of a 40mm or some type of purpose made launcher is how it has been done at most of the games with vehicles that ive been to in the past.

[Matt]

I think that a set of mil-sim rules would be cool, but more guidelines than hard rules. We would recommend vehicle rules, grenade rules, and medic rules... for example. Event organizers could use them if they want, or change them up to meet their needs.

The biggest disagreement with vehicles is whether or not the gunners should be susceptible to small arms fire.

A vehicle on the field should really only have a maximum speed of 10 mph maybe 15, for safety of all players on foot. In most cases, they should also stick to roads and never drive through brush, you don't know who's hiding in there. This turns those vehicles into bullet magnets. In combat, a light vehicle is useful because it's agile. A fast moving target is harder to hit, especially by random OPFOR with small arms, while you can crank away on that 50 cal all you want. But at slow speeds the gunners would almost instantly die every time. We don't have the luxury of putting the pedal to the metal despite who we RUN over in the process, this isn't real war. So what's the point of even having vehicles with guns at all? We also have less range in Airsoft, so we have to get closer to hit people. Even more dangerous to the people on foot.

So, the argument is, if they are invincible to small arms fire... It forces the other team to deal with the vehicle, which becomes a serious threat.

Not really sure what the solution is. Maybe armor plating for the mounted guns? Maybe allowing vehicles to go faster but they must be on a road? Maybe allow mounted guns to have a higher FPS? There's got to be some way they can be kept at an advantage without putting safety at risk.

[Junto]

Are gunners susceptible to small-arms fire in real life? Yes.
Do vehicles take small arms fire in real life? Yes.

Vehicles shouldn't be used, nor gunners employed if no one wants one or the other to get shot.

[Reese]

I really don't think it's an issue as long as the event promoter lays out a clear set of rules regarding vehicles before the game. If the rules are clear, there shouldn't be a need for a community-wide set of rules.

[Mini-Marine]

I agree. gunners are vulnerable to enemy fire. That is the reason that the HMMWVs went from having a simple weapon ring with a pintle mount


To incorporating a gunner shield


To providing 360 protection

[DJ]

My main issue with gunners / dismounting the vehicle is when a pickup truck full of shooters cannot be taken out. Everyone gets pissed and just lights up the "invincible shooters". If you want to shoot from a pickup or jeep type vehicle, you takes your chances. If you do not want your vehicle shot at, do not allow shooting from it. Re the speed thing...that is a good point. In the APC at 12 mph it starts getting a little squirly, mostly due to limited visibility, on the other hand, the regular atvs are a hoot full out when you are being chased. ( for those of you who had gone prior to the helo. My son Joe and I let the Helo chase and shoot at us on the 4 wheelers.....it was fun) not enough other targets left. Back to the point, 10 mph seems OK for the most part. there will be lots of arguments regarding AP making generalized rules for whatever. what I can say is that when I go to an AP event I pretty much know what the rules are and act accordingly. I really dont like it when every event or field I go to has a different set of rules.

Matt I'm going to let this post go til January, Then I will sumarize it on a doccument and submit it for approval or whatever it is you poobahs do

[G36 FTW]

Depending on the vehicle, I don't think gunners should be susceptible to small arms fire. In real life if a hum-vee speeds by you and the gunner is 95% enclosed (like the third picture of Mini Marin's) it would be really hard to nail the gunner, now in airsoft vehicles go from 5-15 miles an hour depending on the game... That makes it much easier to take your time to snag that small bit of his/her head/arm(s) exposed. That’s not fair.

I don't think vehicles should have more than 1 active gunner either...

Also, I agree that flash/pyro/tornado grenades should not be used, and that dummy grenades and 40mm launchers launching nerf rockets should take out vehicles... (Dummy grenades kill all inside + the vehicle, nerf rockets first disable the vehicle, and second time kill all still inside)

But also, any open ATVs or small vehicles gunners should be susceptible, but could also possible go slightly faster?

[Mini-Marine]

Yes the vehicles move faster, but so do the rounds being fired at them. If you land a hit on the gunner they should be out. simple as that.

[Reese]

Yes the vehicles move faster, but so do the rounds being fired at them. If land a hit on the gunner they should be out. simple as that.

Yikes. I wouldn't want that job. BB magnet.

[wake.joe]

I think being forced to avoid vehicles would make an awesome obstacle.

FORCE people to be more covert, and move better.

Gunner can't shoot for 15 seconds after being hit.

I dunno. I'm a firm believer that AP is a community, not a governing body.