What's the most important aspect of good mil-sim?

[BigmanZ]

I've heard that, but I've never seen proof of it....and I have serious issues with a picture sporting a can of Dr Pepper.

[CommieHunter]

But Private Contractor loadouts are still a copout for those that should of stuck with paintball.

If you're gonna need proof of Spec Ops guys wearing multicam, then I'm gonna ask for some rationale behind your statement. Why exactly do you think that multicam wearers should have stuck with paintball?

[Jester316]

I agree, unless your scenario calls for PMCs.

That would be a seriously limited role though. I could see scripted PMC's in an Op, but not one where there is a need for a player based PMC unit.

PMC's could do protection for Commanders/VIPs/Persons of importance (since they do that kind of stuff in real life). And that wouldn't have to be scripted.

[CommieHunter]

Or, how about this:



There are a lot of us that would really like to go out and have a game that feels much more like combat and much less like a video game with cheats enabled. We'd like to feel like we're part of a team, accomplishing something, and maybe yelling and getting an adrenaline rush in the process.


We're not interested only in mimicking real military units or actual past military actions. Thought that is certainly an option, you're still making it sound like full re-enactment or replication is the only 'true' milsim.


Please, realize that there's a larger option than you're wanting to acknowledge.

[Ollie Twist]

Or, how about this:



There are a lot of us that would really like to go out and have a game that feels much more like combat and much less like a video game with cheats enabled. We'd like to feel like we're part of a team, accomplishing something, and maybe yelling and getting an adrenaline rush in the process.


We're not interested only in mimicking real military units or actual past military actions. Thought that is certainly an option, you're still making it sound like full re-enactment or replication is the only 'true' milsim.


Please, realize that there's a larger option than you're wanting to acknowledge.

I think your previous post gave a perfect name to what you have stated.

ComSim

[m3chanized]

heres some multicam
i think im doing it right this is the first time i've posted pics




[quote][/quote]U.S. Air Force and Navy personnel complete preflight safety checks prior to a parachute mission on an HC-130P combat search and rescue aircraft at Camp Lemonier, Djibouti, Jan. 10. Camp Lemonier is the hub of the Combined Joint Task Force, Horn of Africa, providing humanitarian relief, security and anti-terrorism activities to the nations in the Horn of Africa.
(Photographer: Tech. Sgt. Joe Zuccaro : Combined Joint Task Force - Horn of Africa)

[m3chanized]

forgot this one

[CommieHunter]

Nice pics.

[m3chanized]

There's nothing like killing hajis while rolling in the Multicam. I think the only units in a MilSim (or ComSim, I guess) that could wear Multicam would either be PMCs, PJs (maybe, not sure), SEALs, and Delta (maybe...probably)

agreed
sorry i couldn't identify the pics

[Jerm_G]

-Multicam-
Currently Multicam is back under testing at the US Army War Labs. It is an US Army issued uniform for a select few units. There is a movement in the US Army to switch to the multicam pattern because of the lack of efectiveness that the current uniform has in many (BUT NOT ALL) enviroments. US Special Forces, and British special forces are currently using the pattern in Iraq and Afgahn. US miltirary Forces are also moving away from the OTV body armor. The US Marine Corps as a hole is using plate carriers insted of their previous vests. There still are some of the older style of vests in service but only untill some 250,000 vests can be delivered by Eagle Ind. Some units have been allowed to patrol with soft covers to save weight and stress. Climbing hills in excess of 10,000 ft elevation sucks as is. Its worse when its 100 degrees out and your wearing 80 lbs of gear (thats on the light side) that doesnt breath. (Your MK-19 and it is man protable without tripod and ammo weighs over 120 lbs. Someone has to carry it.)

-High speed rails and optics-
All new m-4s and m-16A4s now have knight Arms rails. The USMC is currently making the ACOG standard issue with every rifle. EOTechs are also common (8 were in my platoon). The Army and others are going with the Aimpoint. Tac-lights and lazer optics are also standard now. USMC is also in the process of replacing the SAW. The IAR is currently in its last stage of testing and some have all ready been fielded to select line units.

-PMCs-
Like it or not Contractors are in direct action in both theaters. There is not a single theater that you will not run into several dozen in a day. Contarcting firms are currently hired by several 3 letter agencys to cunduct missions where it is not diplomaticly safe or more experenced small unit warriors are needed. Contractors have better training and more experence than standard military units and can opperate more low key than the typical Army or USMC unit. I have friends with Blackwater (Xi) and said that they are better armed, better trained and seen more combat than they have with the Corps. PMC/contractors dont have uniform requirements. For those of you who saw me at OP: Steel Talon...that was my work clothes, I just left the armor plates at home .

-closing-
In short, if you intend on mil-siming the current operations that are going on today, you have to recongnise that PMCs are going to be near by and chances are you will have to deal with them. You are going to have units with a whole diagram of weapons, optics, vests and cammo patterns. If you really want to be mil-sim, every US forces member should have to have 16 to 18 lbs of "armor" in their vest and weights added to account for the ammo that isnt there. Then toss in a 3 ltr water blatter, nades that are a lb each, another 3lbs straped to your helmet, 5 lbs of "soft armor", 10 lbs for extra ammo for your SAWs, and an AT-4.

End of rant

[McNair]

Or keep in mind that whoever puts the effort into putting on the game can pick whatever the shazaam uniforms people must conform to. If you they don't like it, they can run their own games.

Everyone wants to phony pony about how they're not included but they're not willing to get off their a$$ and do shit themselves.

[BigmanZ]

Thank you for the pictures. I've never been able to find proof of it's use in the military. Everybody that I know that is in the military has heard about it being used, but have never actually seen it in use. I prefer proof instead of taking somebody's word for it.

As for Multicam wearers staying with paintball, I said no such thing. I said people that jump on the PMC bandwagon should of stuck with paintball. Big difference....and yes, Milsim is re-enacting. You can have your Comsim, but I prefer something where the bar is set a little higher.

As for PMC's running missions...they provide security for properties of interest (Military bases, government buildings, etc), escort supply trains, provide VIP protection, and provide training to foreign military and security personel. Nothing more. For any US agency to employ them for anything other then defensive operations would label them unlawful combatents and thus be a violation of the Geneva Convention.

Now when it comes to Airsoft....how many "PMCs" have taken defensive positions the entire event? I've yet to see it because usually the private contractors mysteriously form into some type of special forces blackops unit. If I wanted to play Hollywood, I would of joined Drama in Highschool.

[CommieHunter]

EOTechs are also common (8 were in my platoon). The Army and others are going with the Aimpoint. Tac-lights and lazer optics are also standard now.

....

Like it or not Contractors are in direct action in both theaters. There is not a single theater that you will not run into several dozen in a day. Contractors have better training and more experence than standard military units and can opperate more low key than the typical Army or USMC unit.

I know, I know, but I love it when you all say 'That's not milsim', and the guys over there say, "Actually, it is." {see: C-mag argument}

[TOP]

One of the major problems I have encountered with games is the lack of time.. Time to really receive the Opord from the Commander or Platoon Leaders, time to work on movement techniques...time to study maps..things like that.

On that note, would you guys be interested in having a game... lets say a 1000 start time, but the first few hours would be for Command briefings, getting with Platoons and doing some practice. Then really kick off at 1300 and run until 1800 or 1900 or even 2000? (Summer months of course)

[K-Mac]

Uniform requirments. Hands down. Although I am not that zelous about mil-sim; if a few elements are off, I can live with mil-sim lite.

To Look like a SEAL wear... To look like a Ranger wear... To look like SAS wear... To pull of the rambo dont wear...

Haha. Sadly that could be a legitimate thread:S (Hell I might look at it).