Any VN teams BESIDES US and VC

[danneskjold]

Probably 3rd type slant pocket jungle fatigues, and M56 webgear - likely with some sort of sidebag to carry the Thompson magazines.

[Pope_Alex_Kaeda_I]

Probably 3rd type slant pocket jungle fatigues, and M56 webgear - likely with some sort of sidebag to carry the Thompson magazines.

I could very easily find myself in agreement. (thats my way of saying '+1 foolio!)

Sidebag, or a 5-cell WWII era magazine pack (we provided tons of equipment to the French, who abandoned it in Vietnam). I have photographs of CAR15 armed soldiers wearing CHICOM AK chest rigs, along with their M56 gear - an AK chest rig can easily carry spare magazines.

Most photographs that I have of troops in Vietnam carrying Thompsons, are range photos, where they're not carrying gear. I'll take a second look through my books to see what i can see.



You'll notice, the white guy has M56 gear, as well as a CHICOM chest rig. Please also take note of how his pockets have been relocated to his shoulders.

[danneskjold]

Not only is that M56 gear...that is a STABO rig he is wearing!

Notice he is also using canteens to carry magazines.

[Sleepy]

STABO Rig, ChiCom, okay, I could roll that with self-respect. Carry an AK on my back, roll a Thompson, or a CAR15, I could feel good about myself.

But why does the other guy (middle row, third from the left) have an M203? I thought those didn't really come out until the war was basically done?

[Pope_Alex_Kaeda_I]

STABO Rig, ChiCom, okay, I could roll that with self-respect. Carry an AK on my back, roll a Thompson, or a CAR15, I could feel good about myself.

But why does the other guy (middle row, third from the left) have an M203? I thought those didn't really come out until the war was basically done?

They were developed in 1968, and started showing up in 1969 in ever increasing numbers. The M79 was still the primary grenade launcher, and they're still in service all over the place (from my understanding, the break-action of the M79 allows it to chamber some rounds that the M203 cant hold without removing the barrel). CAR mounted M203's were hella uncommon. One of the Platoon Leaders when I was in the army told us we were super lucky, because 'back in his day, carbines couldn't hold a launcher' *shrugs*

Do it! Get a CAR15! 'nam it up! One is on my list of things to get, but its a little lower on the list, I already have my M16

[Sleepy]

Well, see, the problem with me getting a CAR15 is there are, well, a number of problems

1. Logistical. Setting up an accurate CAR15, for me, seems to be nigh on impossible. Finding the proper stock, getting the entire front end right, all that. Not to mention the fact, that if I was going to do a CAR15, I would want to go all out and do it on an ICS platform, and MBKs for those seem to be rarer than unobtanium thread.

2. Historical. I think that, given what we know now about the CAR15s behavior, and the M16s early behaviors, I would have been hesitant to use one. Now, I'm speaking as the Chairborne Powerpoint Ranger, but it seems the round sometimes lacked stopping power. Now, a burst of .45s across your chest, oh, yeah, you DOWN, meanie. The action of the M16 was sometimes unreliable. My grandfather carried a WW2-era Tommy Gun he found in a RICE PADDY. And he lived to speak about it.

3. Personal. To be hugely honest, I'm not the biggest fan of the M16. I know their record speaks for themselves, but thats just a personal thing. If you could reliably use the STANAG magazine in the G36, and issued that, I could be a happy man.

Now, that being said, if I could find a Full Metal CAR15, I could probably convince myself to carry it. But the Thompson speaks to me. It's a family thing. It comes from time when guns were something of substance. Its a big lump of steel and wood. If you smack somebody with the thing, it will hurt them far more than it hurts you. You hold it in your hands, and it feels real. You know, that if you give somebody a quick burst with it, they will definately feel it.

So, my grandfather was not special forces. Just a regular NCO who just happened to be in field intelligence. Were the STABO rigs common outside of Special Forces?

[Pope_Alex_Kaeda_I]

From my understanding, STABO for regular line units . . . . not so common.

And hey - if a Thompson works for you, go for it! Thompsons work for me - I just generally prefer CAR15/XM177's

[Sleepy]

Well, you know, I'm taking some time to really think about it. The more I stare at photos, the more I make a number of realizations:

1. Magazines are common. Way bloody common. Everyone was carrying them.

2. The XM177 could fit in. I still find it hard to believer that they had collapsible stocks, and other modern looking things, back in the 1960s.

3. find gear would not be a problem.

There's just one thing: Something I read in a book. I know its a Beach Novel, but it was written by a guy who was in Vietnam, in Special Forces. Major John Mullins was Army Special Forces, and he wrote a book called Bayonet Skies, which is a fictional novel about a SF mission into Vietnam in 1975 to rescue a group of hostakes. The book goes very heavily into what sort of equipment this team carried with them, mounted to their STABO rigs.

He finished taping the knife, started attaching the ammunition pouches to the belt. Four of them, enough to hold sixteen magazines of twenty rounds of 5.56mm ammunition

What style of pouch do we think they are using? I'm still kind of ignorant when it comes to Vietnam-era equipment. If I was going to go for a Vietnam loadout, I think I owe it to carry RealCap magazines, but most of the pouches I've found seem to be for only two or three magazines? How does this work out?


If I do ever get around to being at the point where I can afford a VN Loadout, I'll probably give Moore Military a call, pick up a Complete Jungle Fatigue Uniform package, the US Army Complete Field Gear Package, grab an XM177, and customize from there. It feels like taking the easy way out, but they know more about this than I do.

EDIT: Furthermore, I know somewhere at my grandparents house, there is a photograph from my grandparents wedding, where Grampa Bob is in full dress uniform, and I can make some assumptions and deductions (For example, what unit) from those.

[Pope_Alex_Kaeda_I]

the 20 round style magazines were MUCH more common than the 30 round style magazines. Look for M56 'universal' pouches. They'll hold 2 M14 magazines, or 3 M16 magazines. If you drop a rolled up set of stocks into the bottom of the pouch, you'll be able to reach your 20 round style magazines. You can easily carry 4-8 magazine pouches on a pistol belt (thats 12-24 magazines on your waist, plus more in your rucksack, in a bandoleer, or in a CHICOM rig)

I use 30 round style magazines for my vietnam impression.

[Sleepy]

Or, better yet, I can pick up the basics, and then go to the schools BattleSim offers. That could be another fun way to do things. Private Mayernik, reported as ordered.

[PanzerFaust]

I've got four of the 20 round mag pouches, they hold 4 mags and 2 frags. I'm not doin anything with them at the moment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/ ... ure027.jpg

http://www.airsoftpacific.com/viewtopic ... ne&start=0

[Sleepy]

I might pick those up from you later on. I don't know when I'll be ready to start rocking a VN loadout. I've got a lot of things going on right now that need the cash more, such as a car, and a new apartment. I mean, I love living with my folks, my dads TV is way bigger than my old one, but I need to get back out on my own!

Hopefully, by next summer, I'll be out in the field on a more regular basis. Heck, somedays I'm concerned someone will tell me to shut up, since my last actual game was what, February of last year? Grid 18, I crashed Ricks couch and annoyed the shit out of Thompson. Seriously, I wish I had more cash to throw around. But you know, I'm a bit of a research geek. I probably won't even wind up getting my full loadout until after New Years. This is all just research.

Okay, need to get some sleep. Got work in the morning.

[danneskjold]

The ones panzerfaust linked are M67, M56 was more common. Both will work though.

[Sleepy]

How many thompson mags do you think would fit in a ChiCom pouch, and which capacity would it be?

[110]

Korea was one of the best in the Viet war. Our troops kicked a$$ and probably were more feared than the US since we did more hand to hand combat since the US had started to give us weapons. They promised us weapons like M16's and tanks if we would fight in their war. The first time they sent us in they gave us no direction and a lot of our men died. It was like D-Day, literally like D-Day because we landed on the beach and were mowed down by vietcong AK's and MG's. Later we got pissed off at the dumbasses who sent us in without any maps, plans, and help, so they gave us a lot of guns and we pretty much kicked a$$ from there.

Later on in the war, a document was found from a vietcong hideout that the congs were advised to "avoid any combat with Koreans because it could be fatal." how? Koreans were well known to snap necks and slit throats with bayonets rather than use their precious ammo that the US had given to them. Ask a viet in nam today, "what do you think about the Koreans during the conflict in your country?" and they'll jump under a table and save their necks.

Koreans had a major role in the Nam war and its too bad we're not recognized even in a military simulation community.