60'+ Indoor shooting area

[Attack37]

Some of you remember a BB comparison I did a couple years ago. I am looking to do another comparison and need an indoor area that is at least 60' in length.

Once I get the area, I will be asking for donations of at least 100BB's of all brands and weights. I will use my M14 AEG in a rifle vise to remove as much shooter discrepancies as possible. Being indoor eliminates the wind and outdoor variations. This is simply to test BB's for accuracy. Many people swear by certain brands, where the accuracy could be the rifle or shooter. Last time I did this I found a stunning difference in some BB's...and in one case, that a cheaper brand fired just as well as the high end brand.

Any and all sponsors will be acknowledged.

[Juicemachine]

I can donate some Bioshot .25s.

Also, just a suggestion, I'd use multiple guns to test the BB's, as not everyone runs the same barrel length or FPS in their guns. At the very least throw a CQB-legal AEG and a sidearm in there, if not a bolt action, and maybe something with an M4-length barrel.

EDIT: Just a note: I'm not gonna say you should go out and buy all of these other weapons, or even have to beg/borrow/steal for them, so I'm more than willing to let you use my CQB M4 and sidearm for the tests.

EDIT2: Oh, and a shotgun. You could use my shotgun as well. I'm just thinking it'd be a good idea to make the testing more comprehensive.

[Attack37]

I understand what you are suggesting, but I counter with this.

Bolt Action rifles can cause deviation with the shots as you have to subject the rifle to possibly moving with each shot.

Barrel length changes the inherant accuracy of the weapon, not the BB. (BB's accuracy us based on the symetry and any imperfections)

So...the different barrel lengths do not matter, barrel diameter would only tell you which barrels give better accuracy.

I am attempting to demonstrate the quality of the BB, not the weapon. By using the same weapon, all BB's have the same inherant benifits and drawbacks. I do not even adjust the Hop-Up or sight... paying closer attention to shot groups.

[ZombieMan]

Will you be testing the weight and the consistancy of the weight as well?

[Juicemachine]

I understand what you are suggesting, but I counter with this.

Bolt Action rifles can cause deviation with the shots as you have to subject the rifle to possibly moving with each shot.

Barrel length changes the inherant accuracy of the weapon, not the BB. (BB's accuracy us based on the symetry and any imperfections)

So...the different barrel lengths do not matter, barrel diameter would only tell you which barrels give better accuracy.

I am attempting to demonstrate the quality of the BB, not the weapon. By using the same weapon, all BB's have the same inherant benifits and drawbacks. I do not even adjust the Hop-Up or sight... paying closer attention to shot groups.

I'm not saying your testing is flawed, I'm simply saying its scope is somewhat limited. Certain types of weapon and barrel lengths might handle different brands and weights of BB differently, thus my 11.5 inch M4 might like my Airsoft Elite .20s better, while your M14 might like Airsplat .40s.

[Jester316]

I understand what you are suggesting, but I counter with this.

Bolt Action rifles can cause deviation with the shots as you have to subject the rifle to possibly moving with each shot.

Barrel length changes the inherant accuracy of the weapon, not the BB. (BB's accuracy us based on the symetry and any imperfections)

So...the different barrel lengths do not matter, barrel diameter would only tell you which barrels give better accuracy.

I am attempting to demonstrate the quality of the BB, not the weapon. By using the same weapon, all BB's have the same inherant benifits and drawbacks. I do not even adjust the Hop-Up or sight... paying closer attention to shot groups.

I'm not saying your testing is flawed, I'm simply saying its scope is somewhat limited. Certain types of weapon and barrel lengths might handle different brands and weights of BB differently, thus my 11.5 inch M4 might like my Airsoft Elite .20s better, while your M14 might like Airsplat .40s.

Juice, you are old enough to know that when testing an item, you eliminate as many variables as possible, save the one you are testing. Ron is testing which brand of bb is the most accurate. Therefore he wants to eliminate any variances from gun to gun. The what bb works best for what gun is a debate that only you can solve for yourself, and can't be tested for on a large scale. However, what bb is inherently the most accurate can be tested, and Ron's method will deliver the closest thing we can get to proper results.

[Riddick]

I got some bb's I can send ya ron. pm me your mailing address.

[Attack37]

Juice--- Weapons have an inherant accuracy based on thier barrel length, barrel diameter and hop-up. I am using the M14 because it has one of the longest barrel types, so the BB should stabilize the most prior to leaving the weapon.

If you wanted to know the accuracy of a 5.56mm round you wouldn't fire it out of a deringer.

[Attack37]

I am very happy that so many people are willing to send me BB's.... but my first step is finding an indoor place to do the test.....otherwise all of these BB's are for naught.



Once I have a location, I will be sending my addy in PM's to those people who have BB's for me.

Again...thankyou for the support in this test.

[Archangel 06]

My church has a partially-finished gymnasium that is easily 60', and there
would most likely be no problem conducting the test as long as we sweep out the bbs afterwards.

Send me a PM if you are interested, and we can try to set something up.

[Steve]

Actually, Juice has something of a point. If you are testing out of a single platform, then your results are legitimate. For that platform. But not necessarily across multiple platforms.

That is why you see ballistics results (generally) done with one firearm and a bunch of ammo types to find the "best" load for that gun, or one load used to test multiple different firearms to see how the different firearms compare with a single variable. To test ammo, though, you need to compare a single brand across multiple platforms to get a true sample of how the ammo performs across multiple barrel lengths. To compare multiple types of ammo requires firing the projectiles through multiple platforms.

Also, when you get ready to do this, let me know. I will see what I can kick in.

[Juicemachine]

I understand what you are suggesting, but I counter with this.

Bolt Action rifles can cause deviation with the shots as you have to subject the rifle to possibly moving with each shot.

Barrel length changes the inherant accuracy of the weapon, not the BB. (BB's accuracy us based on the symetry and any imperfections)

So...the different barrel lengths do not matter, barrel diameter would only tell you which barrels give better accuracy.

I am attempting to demonstrate the quality of the BB, not the weapon. By using the same weapon, all BB's have the same inherant benifits and drawbacks. I do not even adjust the Hop-Up or sight... paying closer attention to shot groups.

I'm not saying your testing is flawed, I'm simply saying its scope is somewhat limited. Certain types of weapon and barrel lengths might handle different brands and weights of BB differently, thus my 11.5 inch M4 might like my Airsoft Elite .20s better, while your M14 might like Airsplat .40s.

Juice, you are old enough to know that when testing an item, you eliminate as many variables as possible, save the one you are testing. Ron is testing which brand of bb is the most accurate. Therefore he wants to eliminate any variances from gun to gun. The what bb works best for what gun is a debate that only you can solve for yourself, and can't be tested for on a large scale. However, what bb is inherently the most accurate can be tested, and Ron's method will deliver the closest thing we can get to proper results.

You're right, I wasn't clear in what I'm suggesting. I'm saying run the exact same tests, but on several different guns, in separate lanes, with separate targets. Basically, instead of running the experiment once, run it several times. Therefore, instead of saying "this is the best BB evar", you can say "this is the best BB of you're firing from XYZ platform, etc.".

Wait, Steve beat me to it with the analogy about loads for real firearms.

[Attack37]

Well.... you argue a tough point. I only surmise this....

With real firearms you have rifling, which changes bullet characteristics. With a round ball these variations are less of an impact. The grain of the BB is the same. Length of the barrel will not make any difference in the travel of the BB, only the diameter will. Simple test, you can do at home. Place a short barrel in a weapon vice, fire 10rds at a set range. Fire the same through a long barrel. The grouping will be tighter with the long barrell every time.

Since I am trying to determine the BB that gives the tightest shot group, it is just time consumption for me to track multiple weapons. Honestly, if you want to do this, then each of you find a weapon (medium and short length) and when I find a place you can join me and run the test on your weapons. It is just too much for one person to do alone, pictures, BB tracking, loading and all the documentation that went in to it. Last time I think I fired only 8 different BB's, took me 4 hours, and that was one rifle.


I am willing and eager to have help with this, please don't get me wrong.

[Juicemachine]

Well.... you argue a tough point. I only surmise this....

With real firearms you have rifling, which changes bullet characteristics. With a round ball these variations are less of an impact. The grain of the BB is the same. Length of the barrel will not make any difference in the travel of the BB, only the diameter will. Simple test, you can do at home. Place a short barrel in a weapon vice, fire 10rds at a set range. Fire the same through a long barrel. The grouping will be tighter with the long barrell every time.

Since I am trying to determine the BB that gives the tightest shot group, it is just time consumption for me to track multiple weapons. Honestly, if you want to do this, then each of you find a weapon (medium and short length) and when I find a place you can join me and run the test on your weapons. It is just too much for one person to do alone, pictures, BB tracking, loading and all the documentation that went in to it. Last time I think I fired only 8 different BB's, took me 4 hours, and that was one rifle.


I am willing and eager to have help with this, please don't get me wrong.

And I'm eager and willing to help, just let me know when/where, and I'll bring some BB's and a few weapons to test.

[Attack37]

Just remember....you need to know everything about the weapon...in particular...barrel, bucking, and manufacturer of weapon. Will also need a rifle vice, I only have one.