The State of the Airsoft Industry

Discuss anything and everything here that's Airsoft related.

Postby Steve » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:00 pm

Ben, that was very well written, and brings up a whole lot of good points. Matt, you also raised a number of good points about governing organization.

I have neither the business experience of Ben, nor the organizational background of Matt. I do have a few comments on the state of things in the Airsoft world. My personal frustrations about airsoft center on the training side of things, but expand a bit from there. Not being one to sugar-coat things, I’m just going to dive in.

The first thing I think the community needs are media reps. We would be well-served to have people willing and available to be points of contact for media outlets who are doing stories on Airsoft. These individuals need to be personable enough to not look like mouth-breathing fanatical retards on television. They need to understand the topics under discussion well enough to hold a conversation with the reporters without coming off as stilted, idiotic, or worst of all, militaristic (in an “I’m in a militia!â€
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Postby Vegeta » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:38 pm

I don't know if anyone has considered this up but but aren't they ideas of having a National airsoft league and the Firearms company's mutually beneficial, what I mean is if the airsoft community was able to organize isn't there a possibility that company's would realize that they could make a lot of money on airsoft?

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Postby CommieHunter » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:04 pm

Steve, I know real-steel enthusiasts don't always look kindly upon airsofters (though some do), I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of the mindset a lot of real firearm users have. Again, not everyone is like this, but a lot of firearm people are highly opinionated people who are unable to understand that their opinion is not fact, that people can disgree with them, and what they read on the internet doesn't make them an expert. Some airsofters possess the 'I already know it all' attitude, but many many more real firearm owners and enthusiasts have that attitude, and to a greater degree.

Anyway, that was off topic.

I'd be more than willing to be a media spokesperson. I can write, I understand the industry and the product, as well as the players, retailers, and distributors, and I have some education in economics, media relations, and legislation.
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Postby wake.joe » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:12 pm

Caffeine and Rage wrote:Steve, I know real-steel enthusiasts don't always look kindly upon airsofters (though some do), I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of the mindset a lot of real firearm users have. Again, not everyone is like this, but a lot of firearm people are highly opinionated people who are unable to understand that their opinion is not fact, that people can disgree with them, and what they read on the internet doesn't make them an expert. Some airsofters possess the 'I already know it all' attitude, but many many more real firearm owners and enthusiasts have that attitude, and to a greater degree.

Anyway, that was off topic.

I'd be more than willing to be a media spokesperson. I can write, I understand the industry and the product, as well as the players, retailers, and distributors, and I have some education in economics, media relations, and legislation.


Agreed.
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Postby dr.feelgood » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:16 am

As to having a national organization, what if said organization offered incentives to promote membership. Using the NRA as an example; being a member gets you a hat, subscription to their magazine, admission to gun shows for less, access to some firearm related discounts, ect. If a group could use the potential numbers to somehow wrangle a 2 dollar discount at some ops, and occasional members only sale at various retailers, I think airsofters could see it as an economically sound choice.

As to the NRA's disinterest in supporting airsoft, they already are perceived as an off the wall organization, the last thing they need is to be associated with a bunch of wankers who run around shooting each other with pretend guns.
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Postby LettuceHead » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:36 am

My .02 cents...

Before I start let's get this up front... I'm going to talk about paintball, so don't turn this into a "Vs." debate. If you can't handle adults talking shop then scroll past this post. Overlook the details and grasp the big picture. Paintball has been through the same ups and downs as airsoft is going through as it grows. I work in the paintball industry as the purchaser for one of the top 3 paintball retailers in the world and have been very mindful of the industry for 23 years. I see many parallels to airsoft, another hobby/ sport/ pasttime that I enjoy equally.

Ben, I feel your pain on the whole US Customs/ BATFE fiasco. I oversee a lot of direct importing from distributors/ manufacturers in China, Hong Kong and Pakistan. I've dealt with US Customs on several occasions and its always annoying. The most frustrating was when we were importing 12 pallets (approx $45k) of 'milsim' paintball markers that were M4, MP5 and G3ish in general appearance. We had imported them along with laser sights several times before without a hitch.

One shipment is on its way in, our freight forwarder has everything prepped for its arrival, I'm waiting for it to get out of inspection when I get a notice that the red laser sights did not have their FDA rating clearly labeled, and that if we did not provide the proper and verifiable rating that they would be destroyed. Of course, the distributor had no idea what I needed so emailing back and forth in broken English was frustrating. By the time I get the laser rating (racking up storage fees the whole time) I get another notice that the markers have been confiscated. Now the frustration really began...

If anyone here ever deals with US Customs beyond your local inspection point you will discover that only one Point Of Contact (let's call them POCs) at US Customs is given to you. These people are professional stoics, conditioned by Cold War-era brainwashing hardened by years of being yelled at by irate people with seized shipments. POCs are the equivalent of screaming at a brick wall. The first thing I learned is that they seemingly are only available to take your call between 9:17-9:33 am EST every Tuesday that occurs on an odd numbered day. When I did finally get hold of her, she unemotionally informed me that our markers had violated the "orange tip" requirement and are being shipped to Virginia for further inspection and ruling. Now mind you, airsoft requires an orange tip because they are imported under the classification of 'toy'... its a cheaper tariff and helps prevent them from being labelled as 'firearms' or 'BB Guns', resulting in higher tariffs and a slew of legal issues. Paintball equipment is imported as 'sporting goods', a higher tariff but also avoids a lot of the legal requirements for toys. I informed her that paintball markers do not require an orange tip, in which she deadpanned repeatedly that she is NOT the inspector, that she has no bearing on the investigation and that all that she is required to tell me is that we violated XXX regulation. However, she admitted that she was feeling relatively human that day and would inquire as to exactly what the violation was.

So I read it... I'm not at my filing cabinet right now so I don't have the exact text... and the regulation says that "Any traditional BB gun, paintball marker, non-shooting replica, ... does not require an orange tip". I'm wondering what their beef is when I get the reply. The POC states (no, they won't transfer me or have whoever is doing the investigation call me) that our markers are not traditional paintball markers and thus require an orange tip. Yes, our shipment was confiscated due to the interpretation of the placement of a comma by whoever was doing inspections that day. He/ she had probably seen a non-'milsim/scenario' paintball marker before and since this was big, black and sinister looking it was 'not traditional'. That was the final straw and I uncharacteristically vented my pent up frustration, screaming and yelling every cuss word I knew and even some made up ones. Like a rock, the POC was unmoved. I was informed that our case was under further review and that if they were found to still be in violation then we could appeal.

Two weeks later I get a message from the POC. Our markers were found to be in compliance and that they would be shipped back to Portland for pickup. The whole ordeal took nearly four months, pissed off a lot of our wholesale customers and all the extra fees for inspections, storage, etc severely cut into the profit margin of the products. What a nightmare...

The problem in many cases is not so much a lack of airsoft standards as it is a failure of any consistency on the part of government inspectors. Decisions such as this and AONWs case is solely based on an individuals interpretation, reason and possibly if they're bored and feel like doing some paperwork to change their otherwise boring government routine. Once its in their system is is lost in an ocean of red tape and bureaucracy. Good luck on your case, and hopefully it will set new precedents in airsoft's favor.

Matt hit the nail on the head as far as trying to organize a national organization. The time, expense and headaches is beyond the scope of any group of people to do part-time, and good luck trying to get any funding for a core group of people to work on it full-time. To do so either requires significant dues (good luck on that) or manufacturer support... but as soon as manufacturers get involved then its all about their agendas, egos and infighting. Every attempt at a national paintball players organization failed. There is a relatively successful manufacturers organization that agrees on certain standards and tries to take a united approach to growing paintball (the 'rising tide lifts all ships' approach), although there are lots of egos and infighting involved with it as well. Airsoft is much better approaching it on a regional level... in many ways AP is already doing so.

There's been bantering back and forth on here regarding the price of events. After seeing dozens of paintball fields whither and die but a select few remain (my company's indoor field being one of them still standing), My advice for aspiring privately owned airsoft fields is not to play the lowest price game. Understand your true costs to operate and price accordingly. Listen to criticism, use it constructively in how you market or design your events and understand what the consumer wants or expects. Concentrate on your service, provide a safe and enjoyable atmosphere and reinvest in your infrastructure. Always underpromise and overdeliver. You may have less customers in the beginning but by striving for 1% improvement per week you will earn more customers. In the end, customers who shop for experience are more loyal than customers based solely on price. Many won't agree but if a serious business plan is thought out and adhered to I have seen it work time and again.

Just my observations...
Last edited by LettuceHead on Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:11 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby Steve » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:37 am

Caffeine and Rage wrote:Steve, I know real-steel enthusiasts don't always look kindly upon airsofters (though some do), I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of the mindset a lot of real firearm users have. Again, not everyone is like this, but a lot of firearm people are highly opinionated people who are unable to understand that their opinion is not fact, that people can disgree with them, and what they read on the internet doesn't make them an expert. Some airsofters possess the 'I already know it all' attitude, but many many more real firearm owners and enthusiasts have that attitude, and to a greater degree.

Anyway, that was off topic.

I'd be more than willing to be a media spokesperson. I can write, I understand the industry and the product, as well as the players, retailers, and distributors, and I have some education in economics, media relations, and legislation.


To go full circle and bring it back on topic, the attitude that RS enthusiasts have about airsoft enthusiasts is part of the reason that RS organizations are less likely to go out of their way to support airsoft.

If we as a community want to seek the support of the RS community, we need to find areas of commonality, and work to bridge the gap between "us and them". If we want their support, we will have to do most of the work. Sad, yes. True, also. A good start would be to secure a NRA membership, and send your message upward through the organization. Once enugh people "buy in", the organization is much more likely to listen.

EDIT: Nicely put, LettuceHead.
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favor it!

Postby P.R.A.T. » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:29 am

Excellent read & idea.
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