LionClaws OP TradeWinds in August

[Heretic]

I've been to Rilea twice. The wind is pretty omnipresent, but while fighting in the MOUT area most of your shooting is so short range it doesn't matter. Weather aside, its a hoot to fight there. Very different from the normal AOs we play.

Agree.

I will attend IF a sizable force from AP is going.

[Riddick]

I've been to Rilea twice. The wind is pretty omnipresent, but while fighting in the MOUT area most of your shooting is so short range it doesn't matter. Weather aside, its a hoot to fight there. Very different from the normal AOs we play.

Agree.

I will attend IF a sizable force from AP is going.

if it's LC, its going to be spendy. I say wait and play for a cheaper host. i really doubt they are going to be able to do much there but we will know more in the coming months.

[dos_Santos]

There are some interesting and exciting aspects to this event that are being worked on that should set it apart...and the feedback that teams and people from other parts of the NorthWest region will be attending is exciting to me. It would be nice to see new faces outside our local AP community. PDX is the closest int'l airport, but then you could catch a SEAPORT flight to Astoria.

[drpepper475]

i say keep the overpriced lion claw games in cali

[dos_Santos]

i say keep the overpriced lion claw games in cali

What bad experience did you have with LC? BTW, they are all over the US (17), with only 4 being held in CA...

[drpepper475]

Well from what ive heard the lion claw games are not worth the money. Also of Oregon Washington and Cali I thought there were only in Cali

[dos_Santos]

Well from what ive heard the lion claw games are not worth the money. Also of Oregon Washington and Cali I thought there were only in Cali

Oh, I thought by the statement you made, you actually had been to one. Someone like Rick can say they suck because he went to one (and it wasn't that great, I was there), but then you go to another long running event (like Rick mentioned the Irene and LC series) and someone who's actually been there (like ComLink) and he will say they are out of this world.

My point is that unless you've actually been to an event, you have no right commenting on how good or bad it is. My $0.04

For what it's worth, we (8 SOTA + 2 or 3 more) are going to LC XI this year (yes, tickets are bought, car rented and hotel reserved) so then I will know myself whether they suck or not. I've only heard good things of the LC series at the current AO at George AFB. I'll let you know...

[drpepper475]

See that's my thing that sounds expensive. plane tickets hotel and airsoft expenses

[Raging Hormann]

I've always wanted to go to LC or Irene etc. and Rilea was always a blast for me whenever I went. Depending on how many people they want to have go to this it could be very interesting. None of Rilea ever seemed that BIG to me. The MOUT village, while totally awesome, is no Ft. Lewis (Ft. Lewis has a MOUT city complete with school, hotel, office building and hospital).

From my memory of the MOUT village I think 2-3 hundred people would be pretty packed in that area. I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun, but there would be a lot of people.

Granted they probably wouldn't restrict themselves to just the village...

Either way, I am interested in seeing where it will be held and what the scope of the op will be. Definitely interested in playing there if I can afford it time and money-wise.

[EagleDriver]

See that's my thing that sounds expensive. plane tickets hotel and airsoft expenses

In this case, "expensive" is a relative term--relative to what you earn. True, for a lot of people, $200 for a game plus travel, lodging, etc. is not in the budget. There are ways to defray some of those costs, like camping onsite and sharing a ride. Back east our team (it is a big team) usually sends between 40 and 80 guys to Operation Pine Plains in New York. That is about a 7 hour drive from us and so many people carpool to share the expense of gas and then camp at the event so that they can afford to go.

The LionClaws games that I have been to have been very good games that I feel were worth the high cost. When OP Irene is at Zussman, they use the pyro there, so for example, you get an RPG round launched over your head, an explosion, and then a fire. It is actually a small rocket motor on a wire (lots of wires running overhead for those), then a pyro box on a building for the "explosion" and then a gas burner to start the fire (in a car, separate section of ruined building, etc.) I know it is only one example, but it shows how the extra expense can be put to good use.

This year, with OPLC Red Storm East being new, I don't know what to expect. It is a new game in a new, urban AO that is essentially a large lace factory (as in tablecloths.) Many different floors, rooms, etc. and it is supposed to be very hot in there. So it may be a great game, and it may suck. But I just feel fortunate to have big games like this in my area of the world.

Now I also feel the LionClaws ops are in the middle of the MILSIM spectrum. At Irene, you do 4 hours on Saturday morning, 4 in the afternoon, and a 3 to 4 hour night game. There are breaks in between for meals and to set up the next phase. Finally you have a 4 hour op Sunday morning. On the advanced side, you have ops like Pine Plains, which is 24 hours straight, Berget, which is 3 days straight, and East Wind, which seems like a month (ok it is really a week straight.)

[Matt]

It's expensive, like any vacation it's going to cost money. Either you could fly or drive to Disneyland and give Mickey Mouse a handjob, or you could go to Lion Claws. That's the way I see it. $200ish for plane ticket and $200 for a game, it's hard to find that much entertainment in a vacation for $400. Of course you can't bring the family, but who cares about them. This is "YOU" time.

As for Tradewinds, I'm going there regardless of what folks say about it. This is all speculation. I'm sort of obligated to get off my a$$ and represent AP so I'm in. If it's an amazing game, or if it's not, you'll be reading about it here on AP.

[drpepper475]

ok well let me change my tone. lets say i did have the money to go would it be worth it? for those that have gone how was it?

[Matt]

I can speak from experience about Lion Claws, but this OP Tradewinds has never happened before. I went to Lion Claws III. I had fun, while I thought it was definitely better than many of the organized events we have up here, I did want to see more bang for my buck. But part of the problem was the AO, it just wasn't very exciting. Given that LC XI is held in a massive neighborhood of 160 houses on an Airforce base... that changes things.

[McNair]

I can't remember where I read it, but for this event it said something about pushing in from the beach to the MOUT site.
I've been out to Rilea many many times. Personally, the MOUT site is fun with a smaller amount of people. This is one reason I'm more looking forward to PF's game over some nationally advertised game that I think will be way too over populated.
I enjoyed the rest of the camp more than the built up areas. The North half of the camp was pretty fun.

[Steve]

I haven't decided whether or not I am attending this. I've spent a good bit of time up at Rilea. When we were doing medic training up there, it was kinda hard to shove more than a dozen COBs / OpFor and two dozen medics into the space and get much in the way of training done without tripping over each other. I could see a speedball shootfest with 100 people in the MOUT site, but even then, I couldn't see much in the way of accomplishing missions. There is a ton of open ground between the buildings, and a bunch of windows that look out over it. And some of the turns / rooms / doorways are tight enough that somebody attacking or defending is likely to get pretty railed on a hasty breach.

There are some pretty neat training areas within the 3 mile by 2 mile Camp Rilea. The biggest obstacles I can see is that the neat areas to train in are not collocated. So, the really bada** bunker on the northwest corner is pretty separated from the MOUT site, which is sort of over a hill and through a little bit of woods away from the vehicle checkpoint training area. There is a bunch of unimproved training site, but that is basically giant clearings surrounded by thinnish belts of trees on the north end of post.

Now, Rilea doesn't own the beach. And you can't legally shut down beach access, even when you are shooting live ammo on the ranges at Rilea. Anybody on the beach has right-of-way. And IIRC, the primary and secondary dunes are protected ecosystems or some such, meaning stay on the path. So, fighting up the beach, across the primary dune, down through the interstitial space, up the secondary dune, and down into Rilea just isn't likely. On top of that, there is (and I am not kidding here) protected wildlife habitat because of the endangered butterflies. These little no-go patches are scattered all throughout the training areas, and it is all sorts of doom to tread in one.

In order to make use of the larger training areas at the north end of the post, there will have to be some sort of posted security to keep out people without eye protection. There are a couple of roads running through the post that would have to be locked down, plus some sort of safety buffer established.

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. There is a lot of potential, including renting a couple of the starships and bringing in caterers to do meals, or camping in a couple of the training areas on the north end of the post and running operations for the entire weekend. They have a couple of helicopter LZs, and a full Air Assault obstacle course and rappel tower. There is also a MATES / UTES facility on post, but I don't know how easy / tough it is to sign out vehicles, especially to civilians.