WA/JG GBB M4s now "Firearms"

[Q-ball]

DID YOU READ THE TOPIC? It is about the gov. recognizing an airsoft replica as a real "firearm". What part am i not getting?

[Q-ball]

The inbred children of the bunch.
Nasty, thanks for posting this as much as this kind of nonsense pisses me off, It's good to expose it.

[k3gn3123512]

Thanks for keeping us safe from all the WA owning goons. Now the United States is safe from terrorist. Thank you ATF, these dangerous weapons needed to be taken off the street before they hurt someone.

/sarcasm

[Nox]

Well so much for jumping on the GBB bandwagon - guess I need to keep funds available at all times so I can jump on the next fad bandwagon.
#%&&^# I was wanting one of the lower end guns too...I'll be looking for one in Sept..

[G36 FTW]

WE Scar = Win

Muhaha!

However, it is discouraging to hear this, because many people have begun to move to try out GBBRs to enhance their mil-sim gaming, and many may steer clear because of this.

[Nox]

You see though, they've said WA/JG GBBRs. That should mean other brands, like WE and KWA, are in the clear.

In the clear...and about $250 more expensive.
I'm a budget airsofter, so I go for the more affordable platforms. The only time I get to splurge is if I get a hell of a winfall from somewhere so the JG/AGM/ACM platforms are very attractive.

[Foxhound_1_SA]

I really, really, really hate to make this point, as I do NOT agree with the ATF's decision... but I think it needs to be said, as I can (unfortunately) see the logic behind their decision...

As we've already said, the ATF was idiotic in this decision, particularly as no one in their right mind would want to spend so much to destroy a high end GBB in order to make a crappy single fire AR.

However, the problem that exists in this scenario, and the only reason I could see that someone would do this conversion, is to get around certain legal issues with owning a firearm.

You see, as far as the AR15 series is concerned, it is the lower itself that is considered a firearm, and is regulated as such, because it is the part that bears the rifle's serial code and fire control group. The upper receiver, on the other hand, is not regulated, as it is considered a 'part'.

Because this is the case, it would feasibly be possible to buy a GBB airsoft rifle, which anyone can buy, and buy an AR15 upper, which again anyone can purchase, modify them as the ATF has done, and have a real steel rifle without any of the background checks it would normally take to purchase an AR15. Admittedly it's a crap-tastic AR15 that you'd get from that conversion, but it'll still shoot.

[glockmeister]

I really, really, really hate to make this point, as I do NOT agree with the ATF's decision... but I think it needs to be said, as I can (unfortunately) see the logic behind their decision...

As we've already said, the ATF was idiotic in this decision, particularly as no one in their right mind would want to spend so much to destroy a high end GBB in order to make a crappy single fire AR.

However, the problem that exists in this scenario, and the only reason I could see that someone would do this conversion, is to get around certain legal issues with owning a firearm.

You see, as far as the AR15 series is concerned, it is the lower itself that is considered a firearm, and is regulated as such, because it is the part that bears the rifle's serial code and fire control group. The upper receiver, on the other hand, is not regulated, as it is considered a 'part'.

Because this is the case, it would feasibly be possible to buy a GBB airsoft rifle, which anyone can buy, and buy an AR15 upper, which again anyone can purchase, modify them as the ATF has done, and have a real steel rifle without any of the background checks it would normally take to purchase an AR15. Admittedly it's a crap-tastic AR15 that you'd get from that conversion, but it'll still shoot.

So why would you do it....

[TMiller]

You know, nobody even thought about trying this until the ATF said it was possible.

There will be tons of people trying this now.

your kind of retarded arnt you

You're kind of a prick arent you

[Jewish Ninja]

You know, nobody even thought about trying this until the ATF said it was possible.

There will be tons of people trying this now.

your kind of retarded arnt you

You're kind of a prick arent you

You had it coming

[Eyes On]

I really consider the BATFE and DHS as the reject federal LE agencies.

You've had extensive dealings with them have you? While this particular decision is stupid, you have no idea... nor will you ever have one... of the things the ATF has gotten right.

Do you have any idea how many arrests they made in the last 10 years of people attempting to buy or distribute large quantities of -illegal- firearms coming out of Africa and Asia? These including RPG's and even 120mm mortars and ammo? No, I didn't think that a veteran cop like you would have a clue... oh wait, you're not a cop. I forgot.

For every one they get wrong, they get about 1,000 right. You didn't know that, but that didn't prevent you from running your mouth anyway.

DHS is sort of a conglomeration of agencies, so in one sentence you managed to malign a whole group of perfectly capable agencies. I can only assume that it is because you are too retarded to type TSA.

[Norseman]

I really, really, really hate to make this point, as I do NOT agree with the ATF's decision... but I think it needs to be said, as I can (unfortunately) see the logic behind their decision...

As we've already said, the ATF was idiotic in this decision, particularly as no one in their right mind would want to spend so much to destroy a high end GBB in order to make a crappy single fire AR.

However, the problem that exists in this scenario, and the only reason I could see that someone would do this conversion, is to get around certain legal issues with owning a firearm.

You see, as far as the AR15 series is concerned, it is the lower itself that is considered a firearm, and is regulated as such, because it is the part that bears the rifle's serial code and fire control group. The upper receiver, on the other hand, is not regulated, as it is considered a 'part'.

Because this is the case, it would feasibly be possible to buy a GBB airsoft rifle, which anyone can buy, and buy an AR15 upper, which again anyone can purchase, modify them as the ATF has done, and have a real steel rifle without any of the background checks it would normally take to purchase an AR15. Admittedly it's a crap-tastic AR15 that you'd get from that conversion, but it'll still shoot.

So why would you do it....

For the simple reason that you could have a full auto M4 for the price of a GBB and real steel M4 upper without going through a class 3 machine gun dealer to get it.

Have you priced a real full auto M4 lately? They go for like 12,000.00 bucks.

And before anyone says "Nobody would think of doing something like this?"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =172857555

This is what happens when real guns meet airsoft guns on the highest level.......they are over lapping.

The only real fix is for either:

A) The airsoft companies stop reverse engineering real rifles, and come up with a different design not compatible with real rifles.

B) Build semi auto only lower receivers and sell their GBB's as real rifles.

[Android]

For the simple reason that you could have a full auto M4 for the price of a GBB and real steel M4 upper without going through a class 3 machine gun dealer to get it.

Have you priced a real full auto M4 lately? They go for like 12,000.00 bucks.

And before anyone says "Nobody would think of doing something like this?"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =172857555

This is what happens when real guns meet airsoft guns on the highest level.......they are over lapping.

The only real fix is for either:

A) The airsoft companies stop reverse engineering real rifles, and come up with a different design not compatible with real rifles.

B) Build semi auto only lower receivers and sell their GBB's as real rifles.

Isn't the issue though that the firing of real ammunition compromises the structural integrity of the gun, thus only allowing it to get off maybe one burst?

It might just be me, but I'd much rather get an AK on the black market than go through the hassle of buying and modifying a GBB...

To me it doesn't matter if it can fire a burst or a single bullet before catastrophic failure; that projectile coming out the barrel can ruin somebody's day.

I agree with Norseman that companies need to stop taking shortcuts & spend more time in R&D to make their GBB systems. Yeah, it will end up costing more & taking longer for products to come out, but I'm patient enough to wait.

[Foxhound_1_SA]

For the simple reason that you could have a full auto M4 for the price of a GBB and real steel M4 upper without going through a class 3 machine gun dealer to get it.

Have you priced a real full auto M4 lately? They go for like 12,000.00 bucks.

And before anyone says "Nobody would think of doing something like this?"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =172857555

This is what happens when real guns meet airsoft guns on the highest level.......they are over lapping.

The only real fix is for either:

A) The airsoft companies stop reverse engineering real rifles, and come up with a different design not compatible with real rifles.

B) Build semi auto only lower receivers and sell their GBB's as real rifles.

Isn't the issue though that the firing of real ammunition compromises the structural integrity of the gun, thus only allowing it to get off maybe one burst?

It might just be me, but I'd much rather get an AK on the black market than go through the hassle of buying and modifying a GBB...

To me it doesn't matter if it can fire a burst or a single bullet before catastrophic failure; that projectile coming out the barrel can ruin somebody's day.

I agree with Norseman that companies need to stop taking shortcuts & spend more time in R&D to make their GBB systems. Yeah, it will end up costing more & taking longer for products to come out, but I'm patient enough to wait.

Granted, but they never showed in the testing that it'd be possible to convert a GBB lower to a full auto, or even burst fire, configuration. Merely that it could be converted to a single fire, real steel configuration.

The point I was referring to was more along the lines of how someone could get their hands on a real steel AR15 without the other complications of getting a real rifle, namely having to deal with an FFL or go through the background checks that come with it.

Admittedly, my argument ignored the infamous "gun show loophole" or the possibility of a private sale, without going through an FFL or dealing with the firearm's serial number.

The biggest problem of all this, I still feel, is the risk that it will present to the user. I would not be surprised in the least, assuming someone is willing to modify the lower that extensively and compromise the integrity of it that thoroughly, for the news to pick up on someone having a rifle essentially explode in their hands because of it.

It'll be interesting to see the end result of all this, but I still feel that ATF is wasting their time with it. I presented my previous argument as an example of Devil's Advocate, I don't agree with it personally.

[G36 FTW]

Just wondering, why wouldn't this apply to WE m4s?

Does WE's design make a conversion impossible, or did the ATF only look at the WA design, and has yet to spot/look at the WE?