AP safety/weapon rules

[Wisenheimer]

Yes, you do.

[Chesty_01]

Yes, you do.

Since I apparently do, I will have my teammates boost his mk43 to 450 fps. Then I will take my kwa m16 which is shooting 385 and show you guys the difference.

Wisey, whenever your ready, let me know. We can do this next Saturday after low if your able.

[Wisenheimer]

It certainly won't take very long. Give us an hour, maybe 2. We can do it outside of LOW, Vancouver isn't all that far and I have a range I've set up in the back acre that goes out to 200 ft. if you guys just want to come down 205 to Johnson Creek. It's getting dark later and later, a midweek is doable.

[Chesty_01]

Sounds good. I will set it up with Billdo and we will make this happen.

[Catch22]

Let's get something straight, we aren't really talking about velocity here, we're talking about energy.

330fps is 1 joule of energy.
400fps is 1.5 joules.
550fps is 2.8 joules.

Even though between 330fps and 550fps is only a 66% increase in velocity it's almost a 200% increase in energy. A BB fired from a replica at 550fps is hitting TWO TIMES HARDER than the BBs used in our CQC competitions.

The further up you go for velocity the energy required to do it starts getting exponentially larger and larger.

Energy is what can cause the damage to tissue.

People don't seem to understand that upping it "only" 50fps or 75fps still a sizable increase in energy and damage ability.

That's with .2's. It's important to point out though that the energy will be the same no matter the weight of the BB, be it .12, .2, .25, .36, or whatever. They will leave the barrel with the same amount of energy as any other weight BB.

[Chesty_01]

Let's get something straight, we aren't really talking about velocity here, we're talking about energy.

330fps is 1 joule of energy.
400fps is 1.5 joules.
550fps is 2.8 joules.

Even though between 330fps and 550fps is only a 66% increase in velocity it's almost a 200% increase in energy. A BB fired from a replica at 550fps is hitting TWO TIMES HARDER than the BBs used in our CQC competitions.

The further up you go for velocity the energy required to do it starts getting exponentially larger and larger.

Energy is what can cause the damage to tissue.

People don't seem to understand that upping it "only" 50fps or 75fps still a sizable increase in energy and damage ability.

That's with .2's. It's important to point out though that the energy will be the same no matter the weight of the BB, be it .12, .2, .25, .36, or whatever. They will leave the barrel with the same amount of energy as any other weight BB.

I don't get your point. Your saying that at 60ft and bb leaving the barrel at 450 is exponentially more dangerous then at 400? Then why can a bolt take that same shot at 550? You obviously think that's safe. Maybe I am just confused.

[Junto]

If people could use an MG differently than an AEG with an endless high-cap, I'd be down to raise the FPS limits. However, people lay on the triggers for their MGs for extended periods of time (something that would ruin the barrel, IRL) and we have no way of quality-checking SAW gunners.

450 saws? Absolutely not.

I'd like it to be a requirement than anyone turning a bolt has to carry a sidearm, but I think even that is very wishful thinking and puts a few too many good players out until they can afford a good sidearm and enough mags to make it work.

That being said, removing the safety kill rule for them is foolhardy. I think they should still have to be at the range we call safety kills with AEGs and I could see the sidearm bridging the literal gap between safe range for snipers and a reasonable range for safety kills.

[Chefzilla]

I've never understood this love affair with FPS. I can increase range and accuracy with increasing FPS.

Besides increasing FPS increases wear and tear and when talking about the more expensive type of AEG that means a lot more down time due to repairs.

[ogrejager]

We need to quit being pussies, apparently.

I didn't realize that those paintballs I've been shot at by so much have ELEVEN joules of energy. Of course, I can show you the scars and they require ear and face protection.

I can't wait to see your data Chesty/Wisen--add a 330 fps gun to the video, too, please.

[Chesty_01]

We need to quit being pussies, apparently.

I didn't realize that those paintballs I've been shot at by so much have ELEVEN joules of energy. Of course, I can show you the scars and they require ear and face protection.

I can't wait to see your data Chesty/Wisen--add a 330 fps gun to the video, too, please.

Done, I will add a 330 fps aeg along with a gbb pistol. We will also be testing these with .20 bb's to accurately gauge distance. Also none of these aeg's will have tbb's just to make it fair. I have a stock kwa, an upgraded bolt, and a mk43 shooting at 450.

Well let the outcome speak for itself.

[Catch22]

Let's get something straight, we aren't really talking about velocity here, we're talking about energy.

330fps is 1 joule of energy.
400fps is 1.5 joules.
550fps is 2.8 joules.

Even though between 330fps and 550fps is only a 66% increase in velocity it's almost a 200% increase in energy. A BB fired from a replica at 550fps is hitting TWO TIMES HARDER than the BBs used in our CQC competitions.

The further up you go for velocity the energy required to do it starts getting exponentially larger and larger.

Energy is what can cause the damage to tissue.

People don't seem to understand that upping it "only" 50fps or 75fps still a sizable increase in energy and damage ability.

That's with .2's. It's important to point out though that the energy will be the same no matter the weight of the BB, be it .12, .2, .25, .36, or whatever. They will leave the barrel with the same amount of energy as any other weight BB.

I don't get your point. Your saying that at 60ft and bb leaving the barrel at 450 is exponentially more dangerous then at 400? Then why can a bolt take that same shot at 550? You obviously think that's safe. Maybe I am just confused.

I never said anything about 60ft. Do you plan on restricting the SAW's engagement distance to 60 ft or something?

[Payback]

We need to quit being pussies, apparently.

I didn't realize that those paintballs I've been shot at by so much have ELEVEN joules of energy. Of course, I can show you the scars and they require ear and face protection.

I can't wait to see your data Chesty/Wisen--add a 330 fps gun to the video, too, please.

Done, I will add a 330 fps aeg along with a gbb pistol. We will also be testing these with .20 bb's to accurately gauge distance. Also none of these aeg's will have tbb's just to make it fair. I have a stock kwa, an upgraded bolt, and a mk43 shooting at 450.

Well let the outcome speak for itself.

how about a human target to test the pain of each bb hitting?

[Chesty_01]

Let's get something straight, we aren't really talking about velocity here, we're talking about energy.

330fps is 1 joule of energy.
400fps is 1.5 joules.
550fps is 2.8 joules.

Even though between 330fps and 550fps is only a 66% increase in velocity it's almost a 200% increase in energy. A BB fired from a replica at 550fps is hitting TWO TIMES HARDER than the BBs used in our CQC competitions.

The further up you go for velocity the energy required to do it starts getting exponentially larger and larger.

Energy is what can cause the damage to tissue.

People don't seem to understand that upping it "only" 50fps or 75fps still a sizable increase in energy and damage ability.

That's with .2's. It's important to point out though that the energy will be the same no matter the weight of the BB, be it .12, .2, .25, .36, or whatever. They will leave the barrel with the same amount of energy as any other weight BB.

I don't get your point. Your saying that at 60ft and bb leaving the barrel at 450 is exponentially more dangerous then at 400? Then why can a bolt take that same shot at 550? You obviously think that's safe. Maybe I am just confused.

I never said anything about 60ft. Do you plan on restricting the SAW's engagement distance to 60 ft or something?

No, what I am saying is the energy immediately decreases once the round leaves the barrel so at 60ft 450fps is less dangerous the 550, so if a sniper can take a shot at 60ft safely then a saw shooting at 20ft would be the same.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

...if a sniper can take a shot at 60ft safely then a saw shooting at 20ft would be the same.

Care to show your math there?

[Catch22]

Let's get something straight, we aren't really talking about velocity here, we're talking about energy.

330fps is 1 joule of energy.
400fps is 1.5 joules.
550fps is 2.8 joules.

Even though between 330fps and 550fps is only a 66% increase in velocity it's almost a 200% increase in energy. A BB fired from a replica at 550fps is hitting TWO TIMES HARDER than the BBs used in our CQC competitions.

The further up you go for velocity the energy required to do it starts getting exponentially larger and larger.

Energy is what can cause the damage to tissue.

People don't seem to understand that upping it "only" 50fps or 75fps still a sizable increase in energy and damage ability.

That's with .2's. It's important to point out though that the energy will be the same no matter the weight of the BB, be it .12, .2, .25, .36, or whatever. They will leave the barrel with the same amount of energy as any other weight BB.

I don't get your point. Your saying that at 60ft and bb leaving the barrel at 450 is exponentially more dangerous then at 400? Then why can a bolt take that same shot at 550? You obviously think that's safe. Maybe I am just confused.

I never said anything about 60ft. Do you plan on restricting the SAW's engagement distance to 60 ft or something?

No, what I am saying is the energy immediately decreases once the round leaves the barrel so at 60ft 450fps is less dangerous the 550, so if a sniper can take a shot at 60ft safely then a saw shooting at 20ft would be the same.

The use of bolt action rifles is meant to be precise shooting. 60 ft is their minmal engagement distance. Yes, I feel safer about a player taking one well placed shot. Than a player dumping 450 FPS rounds at 20ft.