Event Registration / Player Accountability

[Osmo]

I think everyone generally recognizes the importance of having an accountability system. Once a promoter implements a registration system, others are sure to honor it as long as it is sensibly-designed. It doesn't make sense to have multiple systems in use.

It seems natural to me that Airsoft Pacific would take the lead in developing such a "universal" registration system. AP has long track record of successfully serving as a go-between for players and event organizers. Absent concerns about one entity "holding too much power," the economies of scale (synergies) are obvious. Player registrations could be connected with forums accounts, potentially making verification easier. Player IDs could also record whether a player has a waiver on file. This could even be a prerequisite to getting a card.

Important considerations in developing this system:
- Having the individual or organization issuing cards be well-respected and trustworthy
- Preventing ID forgery and misuse / impersonation
- Being able to verify player identity, age, and team affiliation
- Producing IDs quickly and at a reasonable price
- Maintaining player records while keeping personal info secure
- Providing incentives for players to initially adopt the new system

[Chefzilla]

You guys are dreaming if you think that anything will 'abolish' hackers. This is starting to sound like the He-Man Woman Haters Club.

This hobby attracts all kinds of people and that includes the COD playing crowd. We should be trying to find ways to teach the newest players the right way to do that.

When people show up for a game and are put on teams: 1. Go over all the rules as a whole and 2. Team leaders do the same. 3. As people are playing teammates should be policing one another along with admins.

And most importantly Admins need to enforce rules and know them as well.

If we stopped all the grab a$$ at the beginning of a game and actually had a real safety briefing a lot of this will not be necessary. Then if people are breaking the rules then punish them accordingly. Not only will this stop a lot of the hacking but then it will weed out the bad players.

I really thought a lot of this was common sense.

[Wisenheimer]

I really thought a lot of this was common sense.

Common sense is quite uncommon.

[Matt]

You guys are dreaming if you think that anything will 'abolish' hackers. This is starting to sound like the He-Man Woman Haters Club.

This hobby attracts all kinds of people and that includes the COD playing crowd. We should be trying to find ways to teach the newest players the right way to do that.

When people show up for a game and are put on teams: 1. Go over all the rules as a whole and 2. Team leaders do the same. 3. As people are playing teammates should be policing one another along with admins.

And most importantly Admins need to enforce rules and know them as well.

If we stopped all the grab a$$ at the beginning of a game and actually had a real safety briefing a lot of this will not be necessary. Then if people are breaking the rules then punish them accordingly. Not only will this stop a lot of the hacking but then it will weed out the bad players.

I really thought a lot of this was common sense.

Yeah this. There aren't nearly as many complaints about these problems at well organized games with a solid briefing both by the game promoter and the company COs.

Still though, if we ever want to have consequences for breaking those rules, accountability can be important. Hence the ideas Rick has. It's hard to to ban "anonymous fucktard #12."

I think everyone generally recognizes the importance of having an accountability system. Once a promoter implements a registration system, others are sure to honor it as long as it is sensibly-designed. It doesn't make sense to have multiple systems in use.

It seems natural to me that Airsoft Pacific would take the lead in developing such a "universal" registration system. AP has long track record of successfully serving as a go-between for players and event organizers. Absent concerns about one entity "holding too much power," the economies of scale (synergies) are obvious. Player registrations could be connected with forums accounts, potentially making verification easier. Player IDs could also record whether a player has a waiver on file. This could even be a prerequisite to getting a card.

Important considerations in developing this system:
- Having the individual or organization issuing cards be well-respected and trustworthy
- Preventing ID forgery and misuse / impersonation
- Being able to verify player identity, age, and team affiliation
- Producing IDs quickly and at a reasonable price
- Maintaining player records while keeping personal info secure
- Providing incentives for players to initially adopt the new system

I'm all for building a better system like this, but it won't happen over night. I also believe that it shouldn't even be done if it's "half assed" and nobody should be required to use a janky system. Hence the reason why I have not brought anything like this to the public, I will not launch a system like this and require anyone to use it unless I believe it's perfect. Until then, when I host games I'll do my best to make sure everyone understands the rules and we'll do our best to kick the rule breakers out.

It has to be well implemented, otherwise people will not use it. In the past I've seen a lot of knee-jerk reactions here on AP, folks saying "You want a league, well here's a free proboard website I setup, go sign up!" Those never work.

In the mean time we (AP and APST) are hosting some events that will be exclusive only to members of established teams. Now don't get your panties in a bundle if you don't belong to a team, this is only a FEW select events and we may also allow teams to vouch for individuals. The point being, somebody is responsible for who's attending, the teams are. If we got a problem with somebody? Who are they with? Team TURD? Well then I talk to the CO of Team TURD and have them straighten their guy out. If he ends up on the admin's shit list a second time, we don't invite him back.

[Bircher]

team TURD you mean the "tactical urban response divison"


Now in all seriousness, heres my idea

So people from AP who host things should have a fileing cabinet with all names of people, waivers, etc, and if its your first timep laying they make you a file and put you in a section according to last name, A-K, L-R, S-Z,

heres an example if why this would be handy

- Team A notices a member of Team B not calling hits, blindfiring, etc
- Team A member informs Admin
- Admin keeps eye on that person
- if person is caught braking rules, they are given a warning and this warning is written down in there file
- Lets say this person already has a warning, he is taken to regisration and his file is found, depending on offeence he is suspended from AP hosted events for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 8 months, and a year.
- now if he is on his last leg(already suspended once), he is expelled from AP hosted events

[Wisenheimer]

Doesn't the term, "league" mean there's a ladder, with divisions, playoffs, and a champion at the end of a season?

This sounds more like a governing body. I've mentioned the similarities between airsoft and hang gliding, I won't reiterate... use the search.

A governing body is one thing, a league is another, though they can and do co-exist to the benefit of any sport. A league can be carefully monitored, teams check each other, train, attract single players, etc. while the governing body can make rules, enforce discipline amongst teams, etc.

If there were ladders, divisions and a championship series I may even be inclined to join a team.

[ogrejager]

You can't really make airsoft competitive. That whole "call your hits" things goes out the window pretty quickly if there's any ego/prizes in the win.

The exception, of course, is games that run teams against a "standard situation" like the CQC series and so forth.

[Steve]

You can't really make airsoft competitive. That whole "call your hits" things goes out the window pretty quickly if there's any ego/prizes in the win.

The exception, of course, is games that run teams against a "standard situation" like the CQC series and so forth.

I'd argue that unless you are shooting targets against the clock, you still don't have results that are unbiased. Unless your OpFor is incredibly dedicated, they start changing the playbook between iterations. Generally subtlely, but it adds up. Team #4 has a different experience than team #1. But I digress...

The main thing that discourages me about league systems is that they generally require players to belong to a recognized team. And I, along with a number of other players, do not belong to a team.

I realize that this is a choice on my part. I'm sure if I begged, one or more teams in the area would grudgingly accept me provisionally. But I don't particularly want to have to join a team in order to play.

I would much prefer a system that leaves enough wiggle room in it to allow non-affiliated players to still participate as fill-ins to round out the holes in squads, platoons, and companies at events.

Also, and basically diametrically opposed to the prior statement, 5 guys who hang out do not a team make. I've run across countless numbers of individual fire teams across the years. I think this micro-team atmosphere is something that is detrimental to the community, but haven't found a way to fix it. Larger teams mean more opportunity for newer players to mesh with the group.

[Matt]

Doesn't the term, "league" mean there's a ladder, with divisions, playoffs, and a champion at the end of a season?

This sounds more like a governing body. I've mentioned the similarities between airsoft and hang gliding, I won't reiterate... use the search.

A governing body is one thing, a league is another, though they can and do co-exist to the benefit of any sport. A league can be carefully monitored, teams check each other, train, attract single players, etc. while the governing body can make rules, enforce discipline amongst teams, etc.

If there were ladders, divisions and a championship series I may even be inclined to join a team.

You are talking about 2 entirely different things here. The problem is the lack of any regard for the rules. The answer, at least some people think, is to create some sort of governing body to enforce the rules. All of that competitive sports league stuff comes secondary. If you have an organization in place, you can have competitive events for teams - but anybody can host a team vs team event, whether there's a league or not.

[Wisenheimer]

blah blah blah
This sounds more like a governing body. I've mentioned the similarities between airsoft and hang gliding, I won't reiterate... use the search.

Blah.

You are talking about 2 entirely different things here. The problem is the lack of any regard for the rules. The answer, at least some people think, is to create some sort of governing body to enforce the rules. All of that competitive sports league stuff comes secondary. If you have an organization in place, you can have competitive events for teams - but anybody can host a team vs team event, whether there's a league or not.

No, I'm not really talking about 2 different things at all. I promised not to reiterate about USHPA, nor will I argue the point though I will say not everyone in that organization competes, so like everyone else is told.... use the search.

I'll say it again, for like the 30th time... this is all talk and hot air until something is actually done.

But watching you guys argue about it is insightful.

[Catch22]

A governing body is one thing, a league is another.

You are talking about 2 entirely different things here.

No, I'm not really talking about 2 different things at all.

Yeah ya are

[Wisenheimer]

A governing body is one thing, a league is another, though they can and do co-exist to the benefit of any sport.

If any of you read a damn word you'd see that I already stated what you so emphatically like to point out.

Haters gonna hate I guess.

[Catch22]

Lighten up and take a joke.

[ogrejager]

Oooo! Let me whack Wisenhamer first! I want to be the first guy for once.

To stay on topic--I'm waiting for more details. First Chesty and now Matt say, "I've got a plan." I want to see the plan darnit!

[Jester316]

JOIN PWAA! OUR PLAN IS NOW!!!!!



Joking aside though, I don't think a league/governing body is going to fix the situation. Enforcement of the rules (not more or less rules) is going what needs to be done. You can make up all the rules you want, but without people to enforce them, they mean little. Why is it that everyone speeds down I-5? Because there aren't enough cops to pull everyone over. But as you increase the number of cops on the highway, the number of speeders goes down drastically. It's not because the government said that if you speed you'll go to jail, or pay a fine, or get shot. They slow down because the presence of enforcement is higher.