Undecided, GBBR or AEG or Blowback AEG?

[binicb2r]

I am looking for a new airsoft rifle, an M4 to be exact. I want it full metal because I intend to build it into a copy of my real M4, stock, grip, handguards, and use it for training. Its a heck of alot cheaper to shoot BBs then .223 and its the same platform so I can practice stance, tactical reloads, moving, muzzle control and gain muscle memory.

With an AEG I shoot alot. I mean alot. I usually go through about a thousand rounds per game. That can be 5-7000 rounds a day easily. I am used as suppressing fire since my G36 is high ROF and carrys alot of ammo.

with a gas gun, such as a gas pistol, even though mine is also full auto, I tend to pick my shots more and spray much less unless I really need to. IMHO, great for treating it as a real rifle. not great if you need to do heavy support.

What I have been looking at:

AEGs: G&G blowback and Dboys full metal M4

I came across the AGM gas M4, WE gas M4 and the G&P.

The AGM is nice and cheap and seems to get pretty good reviews except the trigger group is pot metal and the bolt catch wears out. seems like all the bolt catches wear out sooner or later. The trigger group kinda worries me. I do really like the G&P and the WE too but they are a bit out of the price range I was looking in. Supposedly the AGM is a WA clone.

I do live where it is below 0 in the winter and its not uncommon for me to play when its too cold for electric guns to be remotely reliable and the gas guns stopped working long ago. I tend to play most in the fall and spring. Other then weather, I know how reliable an AEG can be but then again, my gas pistol is apart less then the AEG ( probably because Im constantly doing something to my AEG ).

Convince me either way. I want a gun I can field reliably. Several hundred rounds a day, most probably on semi with a gas gun. I don't mind a cheap fix every once in a while but not every few games. I am not afraid to get in the gun and maintain it, heck, I shoot a real M4 and from what I have seen the GBB guns are very similar.

For me, would you recommend AEG or GBB? What about the brands I listed? Cheap is better for my wallet. I know the saying you get what you pay for.

Thanks!

[Evil Zergling137]

I'm confused by this thread.

If you want to play games, get an AEG.

If you want to practice for shooting real guns get a gas blowback.

If you need to do both with the same gun get an AEG.

The number of rounds you use is normal for serious players.

What is the confusion?

[binicb2r]

well, i cant use that many rounds in a real m4 because it would be a) very very expensive and b) how would i ever carry that much weight?

yes, i want both. i want as real as possibly for a budget. no 400+ dollar guns here, i would just buy a 22lr upper for the AR then some real magpul goodies with money left over. i want to use it for muscle memory, reloads, trigger control and movement. most AEGs are devoid of any feeling which makes them feel weird. im no stranger to watching rounds as i never full a real m4 mag full to make me reload and make me count rounds and so i dont blow through 30 rounds in 2 seconds.

~GBBR is attractive because they are generally metal and look to function very very similarly to the real counterpart.
~EBBR is attractive because they are pretty decently priced and have a blowback action.
~standard AEG is attractive because for pretty good price i can get a full metal AEG then make is completely silent like my old G36c was and still have a proper platform and good weight. it will only feel right after some heavy stuff like a AA battery model eotech and some weight to the mags though.

the question is; AEG, electric blow back or GBBR? im looking for thoughts on durability, longevity. something that might persuade me to look at one or another. so, will full metal be best? EBBR with plastic body going to cause issues or budget GBBR?

i wont always have the luxury of being in a controlled environment with my AR. training means worst case scenario. under pressure we dont rise to the challenge but fall to the level of our training.

[God]

Let's make this cut and dry.

AEG-Skirmishable stock, even JGs are skimishable stock
GBBR-Rarely skirmishable stock, expect to spend over $500 just to get a skirmishable gun/enough mags
-WEs are okay if you really want a stock, cheap-ish GBBR. Mags still cost ~$40ea

AEG EBB-Same as an AEG, "recoil" is pointless.


I have a KA M4 GBBR, RA-TECH BCG w/ NPAS, STILL not skirmishable. Too many issues IMO. They're skirmishable if you want a money pit($1400 INOKATSU/VIPERTECH)

Here's the most realistic GBBR you'll ever find I suspect: http://www.gasguns.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8403

[Steve]

It's my considered opinion that airsoft rifle have not advanced enough to work as standalone training units. There are some that come close, but we aren't there yet. And this is why:

Systema PTWs: Just about the best (read, most expensive) training AEG out there. The platform stops cycling when the last round is fired. However, recoil? And, in order to reset the weapon, the bolt release has to be pressed once a new mag is loaded. To the best of my knowledge, racking back on the charging handle does not reset the system.

WE M-4s: Aside from their history of importation "issues" and the attendant ATF idiocy, their build quality is piss-poor. I had a mag blow the f*** up like a grenade.

Other GBB M-4's: Recoil. Not sure what other issues, since I haven't had the opportunity to manipulate them.

AEGs: Control manipulation. When the weapon burns through a mag, most of them don't stop cycling. The charging handles are not designed to be reefed back on like with an AR. They tend to drop ~4 pellets when the mag is dropped, and if you pull the mag at an angle, these pellets can cause the next mag to fail to seat properly.

Airsoft in general: Recoil. Accuracy and consistancy. Ruggedness. Proper weight. Out-of-spec parts. Gas mags tend to have fragile feed lips, and the feed lips on all mags extend past the dimensions of a STANAG magazine. Controls that don't work like they do in the real world. Airsoft is fine for plinking in the backyard, playing airsoft, or just relieving the trigger-pulling itch. And it even has a whole lot of value for force-on-force and use-of-force training.

But for teaching basic weapons manipulation skills, it is sorely lacking. Fundamental skills are something you should be learning and practicing on a real rifle. The employment of those skills against a wider scenario? That's when airsoft comes into play.

[LiquidSnak]

If you get a decent AEG, weight is pretty damn close, especially with a high quality metal magazine, and once you get a good battery in there.

If you are used to a real rifle, EBB guns might disappoint you. G&G has the best blowback system I've seen, if you want to go this route, however. Metal body will make you happy, though.

Gas, aside from the mags being 2x the cost, doesn't tend to be skirmishable in cold weather. And the mag explosions are not an attractive feature, as far as most of us are concerned, but that has been an issue only with WE.

So that boils it down to AEG or EBB.

My theory regarding EBB is more parts to break = reduced reliability. The rest is up to you.

[McNair]

... i would just buy a 22lr upper for the AR ...

If you ever want to do something like that, I would recommend just buying a bolt and mags. You don't need a whole new upper.

[LiquidSnak]

http://www.botachtactical.com/cmar22lrcoki.html

[binicb2r]

... i would just buy a 22lr upper for the AR ...

If you ever want to do something like that, I would recommend just buying a bolt and mags. You don't need a whole new upper.

a 5.56 and a 22 barrel are different sizes. .224 and .221. that leads to terrible accuracy and a ton of 22lr junk in the gas system. they are only about 100 dollar difference too. a good 22lr conversion is 2-300 bucks. a good 22lr cmmg upper starts at 330. ive been looking at those and 300AAC, 6.5 grendal and 6.8SPC uppers.

i just ended up going with another AEG, full metal of course and PMAG midcaps. why is everything in airsoft 2x the price of its real counterpart? MOE handguards are 40 buck, ones for my real AR are 25 bucks and would fit just fine. a standard CAR handguard is 20 bucks where the one on my AR was 8 bucks and would fit most airsoft fine.

as for the JG thing i read earlier, IMHO, most JG are under rated. my last gun ( read first airsoft gun ), a 100 dollar metal gearbox G36c, was a JG and could hang with the upgraded CA crowd. when i upgraded ( read sorbo pad, home made mosfet and lighter spring ) it it became a legend in my club for ROF and being so quiet.

[Matt]

JG is mostly underrated because Tokyo Marui guns from 10 years ago performed just as well.

[Jester316]

A 5.56 round after shooting some .22's out of yuor upper will clean out the "gunk" in the gas system...

Also, I've shot numerous .22 conversions for AR's, and not had a problem with them... I'm looking to pick one up for my AR now too.

[league 4]

My G&P WOC (not WOC X) was skirmishable stock. It shot pretty well even in the cold WA weather, and I only got a couple hundred rounds through but it never showed any signs of wear.

[binicb2r]

A 5.56 round after shooting some .22's out of yuor upper will clean out the "gunk" in the gas system...

Also, I've shot numerous .22 conversions for AR's, and not had a problem with them... I'm looking to pick one up for my AR now too.

you still cant beat the performance of a dedicated upper. my dad runs a tactical solutions 22lr upper. flawless upper. i have a sig 522 that i got just before i built my AR. it kinda feels redundant to get an upper for the AR with the sig there. sig is many many times better than a 10/22. finally cmmg has 22 uppers that cam compare with bolt hold open. the sig is my 22lr comp/plinking rifle.

@matt. youd be surprised. my mostly stock, just a mosfet, lower fps spring and sorbo pad, JG would give upgraded CAs a run for their worth. With hopup set properly it will range out with our hottest AEGs while only shooting 330fps. a gem will show up when least expected as will a lemon show up in the premiere guns. it seems many of us here run guns that perform surprisingly well and take alot of abuse that are not supposed to be worth anything to the "serious" airsofters. we just take good care of them and put some elbow grease into making sure they run reliable and at their best.

[LiquidSnak]

On a strange side note, the difference in MM between a .22 and a .223 happens to be .0762mm... strange coincidence? But that's the thickness of a human hair.

72 micrometers... which isn't going to make a hell of a lot of difference in an upper receiver. Especially when .22 is actually .220 -221 inches and the bore of the .223 upper receiver is actually more like .222, which puts the difference at 25 to 50 micrometers, depending on the gun and ammunition combination. Save the $.

This also isn't meant to insult you in any way, it's just to put reality into perspective.

[NFS_Shadow]

In my opinion defiantly an aeg. Non blowback(just wastes battery). And make sure to get a ton of real cap magazines since a real m4 mag doesn't hold 500 rounds