PTOC

[Jester316]

I am posting this here because, in my eyes, this refers to a retailer. If any MOD's think this goes somewhere else, please move it.


I am not sure if I should post this or not, but I am deeply concerned. Two nights ago, Saturday, I was cleaning up at PTOC from OP Lazarus, when PTOC Chris and his buddy came out. They were trying to kick down a training door, that I believe was built by/used for BSP, when I see them reach into their waist bands. They proceed to place on the counter a Springfield XD and a 1911 (RS, not airsoft). I instantly knew what they were, however there was a 16 year old actor there with me (we were the only 2 there). The 16 year old proceeded to ask if those were airsoft guns, to which Chris replied that they shoot a little to hot for CQC. They proceeded to kick down this door approximately 10 feet from their firearms. I know this might seem trivial, but I honestly felt unsafe in the area. They not once said they were real firearms, and they did not maintain control of them.

I don't know if I am just being stupid, or what. I honestly don't know if this is even post worthy. I guess I just wanted to warn people of what was going on there. Even though he is moving out, I still feel the need to let the community know what was happening there. I have heard that this isn't the first RS issue, but this is one that directly affected me.

[Deleteplz]

I did hear something before about someone there modifying shotgun shells to shoot airsoft bb's, but I didn't think they assumed on using it for airsoft.

Although the fact that there were real guns at PTOC is unnerving, it's his place and it's not like we can do anything about it.

[KA-BAR]

i would say that is a HUGE issue.

airsoft and real steel do NOT mix #1, and #2 careless disregard for unattended firearms at a airsoft location is also, very poor form. since he is closeing his doors, and shutting down buisness, i guess it wont affect him much now.....but in the future, trying to get community participation might be a problem. guess he might want to market his services outside this community, i doubt he will be getting much support from it anymore.


#3 when the accidents began to happen, there will be no turning back from " oh shit, where is mah gat? i left it on the table out front!! oh shit i better go get that quick before some kid picks it up, thinking its a airsoft gu......"

BANG!..../walks in to find dead kid on PTOC floor, bleeding out.

/buisness plan = bloused, index please.

[Bigfoot]

I was at PTOC all weekend and there were replicas lying on tables everywhere. Everyone was picking up everyone elses replicas and shooting them off. This is an issue because someone could have had an accident like Morgan discribed.

"Hey is the by TM?...(bang)"

[Braddock]

yeah, not really smart at all...

[Mobius]

while I don't think it was the greatest idea to leave two RS firearms lying unattended at any point I have to look at some of the circumstances.

1. it was after hours and you and this other kid were the only ones there so its quite unlikely that anyone would have just picked it up and started shooting.

2. Chris has and has always had his xd with him and has the ccl to carry it

I dont think it should be mandatory that someone has to raise the thing over their head and and yell I have a real gun, this is real, it shoots bullets!!!

Yes it was not the most well thought out decision but I know that Chris would have had one eye on that thing at all times.

Morgan, really don't understand why you thing that any time something like this comes up you have to jump back on the failboat thing right away. You seem to think that its your job to start shouting about how you think he'll never be supported again.

People make mistakes and in this case it (fortunately) didn't result in something horrible. Ive made my share of mistakes and Im pretty sure that everyone here has. lets not all grab the torches and pitchforks for another witch hunt.

The man has a CCL it is his right to carry a firearm it is also your right as a bystander to walk over and say "hey man that thing is real and Im not comfortable with it sitting out like that.

If at that point he refused and acted like a tool then I would say yes there is a serious problem.

[KA-BAR]

he has up the FPS past community standards, and not has this issue to deal with. he hasent gotten any buisness from me all summer long becuse of it, i dont care if he is give 100 systema PTW's away.


so with that said, i speak with my hard earned cash, not my internet monopoly dramatics cashola....ya know what i mean mobius?


SAFTEY ALWAYS COMES FIRST.PERIOD.

[Riddick]

No matter how you want to spin it, real steel in a place known to only frequent airsoft guns is a very bad idea. Him carrying it is not the issue him leaving out in the open is.

Unattended firearms is how accidents happen. How many time we see in the paper where a kid found daddys gun and shot himself with it or someone else.

It should have been locked away in his office. Since I have a CCL and so does he I know he has been taught on proper safe keeping of his firearm.

[Mobius]

again I am not saying that this was okay by any stretch.

I am only saying that this really doesnt need to be blown out of proportion

[Jester316]

I don't want this to turn into a debate about his airsoft standards. My reason for posting this was to inform the community of a POTENTIALLY hazardous situation. I knew what it was, and I'm fairly certain the actor knew. But the fact that when asked, he deliberately misled the actor, that creates the biggest issue. He never once said it was real, even when asked. Maybe I over-reacted, but we preach that RS and airsoft don't mix. Shouldn't that be the case?

[DMitri]

Yes.

[Mobius]

yes this is the issue at hand. I know that this issue has been covered once before with someone else at ptoc and chris should have remembered this himself and avoided the situation.

[LiquidSnak]

It definitely should be the case. Again, just to repeat what has been said, the firearm is not the issue. I have a damn good idea why it was present in the first place, but leaving them unattended in the open, even for a brief moment should not have been done. I know why they put them down, too... but a safer location IMO should have been chosen, or a "hey, *****, this is my RS, can you hold/keep an eye on it for me while I kick in this door?" I can see the thought process, but saying its a little too hot for CQC and telling someone that you left a real gun there and not to mess with it are two VERY different things.

[wake.joe]

Real Steel weapons at PTOC were -always- locked up in a locker behind Chris' desk in his office. When we would leave, he would even usually lock his office.

The door was built by Chase Crimmins for PTOC, not BSP or S4. We often stand around and kick the door. It's what we do - Boredom killer.

Adrian, my wife, was standing next to the counter keeping an eye on the firearms. A few minutes before, she had actually been holding them. But I had decided it would be better if they were just sitting on a desk, rather than someone standing there holding them.

I also believe that I told you, while I was setting them on the desk, that I was putting them there so they're obviously in view or something like that.


However, the point remains that it was very after-hours, I had personally checked with the kid about being uncomfortable around firearms, and my wife was standing there supervising. Do you remember her? Green jacket, long hair probably pulled back into a pony tail.


I don't want to twist anything here, but I'm not sure how unsafe you really could have felt.

You tried the breech door too!

[Jester316]

Yes, I did attempt to breach the door. I did see your wife there, but she was constantly moving around, and not within arms length of the guns for more than 20 seconds at a time. As for her holding them, I watched both you and Chris pull them from your waistbands and set them on the counter. Again, my issue is not that you had them. It is that no one directly stated they were real firearms when asked about them. I never heard you ask the actor about them, and neither did you ask me about them. Maybe I blew all this out of proportion, but the more I thought about it, the more it started to bug me. I even PM'd a mod about it, and he said it was up to me. I feel that there were better ways of going about the situation. I'll be done with this topic. It's in the past, no one got hurt.