Battlesim CQB Canceled

[hellmutt]

I don't know why I cannot open the other thread on this but it gives me an error every time I try to open it. In any case, we can canceling CQB.

Our current registration is now only 1/2 of a team and 2 individual players. We cannot hold a competition with less than one team.

All I have heard for the last 3 years is "we want CQB" from scores of airsoft players. Where are they now? This is really a sad day because we have a top notch professional training company running the event and we have a kick a$$ facility. But no one wants to come. I don't know if it is the price or the economy or something else.

Our cost for the event was going to be $3500.00. We tried to price it as low as we could to make it happen. We even introduced a sliding scale so that it would make it more affordable if we could get more people to come and we offered a first prize of free admission for the winning team - effectively meaning we would make no money on this event. In fact, depending on the size of the team - we would likely loose money.

I think there is a misconception that we price things so that we will make a ton of money. We make squat. We try to make money but the reality of the situation is that our average event makes us $100-$300 and many loose money. We are far more in the red then the black on this company.

I have tried for 4 years now to provide the best events, the most immersive environments, and the most realistic simulations I can produce. We have had dozens of people who have helped us over the years, investing time, money and resources to make this happen. We have produced some of the most amazing airsoft simulations in the world.

For a long time, I thought the issue was that we focused on historical simulations but this epic fail of CQB puts that idea to bed. It doesn't seem to matter what we do.

Refunds for those who have signed up will happen within the week.

[KA-BAR]

dude, join the club.

BSP challenge canceled.
battlesim canceled.


i have watched all the quality events get cancelled due to lack of participation. this is the main reason i will never prepay a event ever again.


CQC is a damn curse.

[Nocte]

I think there is a misconception that we price things so that we will make a ton of money. We make squat. We try to make money but the reality of the situation is that our average event makes us $100-$300 and many loose money.

I think the reason behind this supposed misconception is that people don't feel that the game they paid $80 for was worth it, and that the previous games from non-BattleSim event promoters they spent $35 for tend to be more enjoyable. This builds the perception that BattleSim games are less fun and more expensive, so yeah, people will think you're pulling in cash hand over fist because they are getting more from their money everywhere else.

Perhaps your added costs aren't adding to the enjoyment people are spending extra for. I suppose if I had to put an arbitrary analogy to it, it's like buying a Honda Civic with 100k+ miles on it, bald tires, and needs an oil change, but it's got all the bolt on body pieces that really don't do anything for the ride. Those bolt on pieces are expensive, sure, so the buyer should have to pay for them - but why not just get a nicer car for less money than that combined package?

Morgan, BSP Challenge wasn't canceled from a lack of interest - I don't think it's quite in the same category as this discussion.

[hellmutt]

It is a curse that's for sure. I'm not just a member of the club, I'm the president!

[B to the RAD]

If you had prepaid then mabey the event wouldnt have been canceled. That is pretty much the dumbest thing I have ever heard, "I will not prepay for an event ever". Why would anyone ever run an event if they werent shure people would come. Its that kind of attitude that destroys our sport. Also its not like you wont get a refund if the event is cancled. I dont think I have ever been in a situation where I didnt get my moneys worth.

[KA-BAR]

B to the FAD.....dont hit submitt button in my presence ever again fool.

[hellmutt]

Wow Nocte, you hit it on nail on the head. We suck and cost too much. I don't know what I didn't realize that before. You're a genius. I think the real reason is that we are too realistic. People tend to want watered down versions of military simulations where they can use their unrealistic rates of fire and magazine capacities to play a slightly improved paintball game.

I know we don't suck because people spend upwards of $1000 to attend our events and some even more. We get people from all over the United States and even the world. While you don't think our events are worth $80 there are people from Sweden and the UK who pay $1400 just to fly out to our events and they do it several times. Most of our participants come from out of the region, SoCal, Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, New York, New Jersey, Texas, Alabama and they come over and over.

We have a niche market for sure. But we are not a shitty Honda but thanks for the comparison.

[hellmutt]

to the FAD.....dont hit submitt button in my presence ever again fool.

Or what? You'll write mean things? He has a point. And besides, it wasn't a pre-pay - it was a deposit.

[Martin.]

i thought that you had only one spot left? or did i misunderstand:

There is one team slot left.

There are 6 individual slots left.

Signup now:

http://www.battlesim.com/zen/index.php? ... cts_id=287

[chapped]

I think the real reason is that we are too realistic. People tend to want watered down versions of military simulations where they can use their unrealistic rates of fire and magazine capacities to play a slightly improved paintball game.

This statement isn't too far from the truth.
BSP has experienced a lack of participation in our training events for this very reason.
You have to remember that for the majority, airsoft is merely recreation. They prefer a lighter dose of simulation.
Economics rules the day. There is a lot more competition for airsoft events than there used to be.
Once upon a time you'd see an event once a month if you were lucky. Now there are multiple events to choose from on any given weekend. People are going to choose what is affordable, familiar and convenient.
This makes a great environment for the player. Unfortunately for the promoter, it means trying to deliver more for less.

Keep swinging!

[hellmutt]

We got "commitments" from several teams via email but none of them actually panned out. They might have in the next couple of weeks but with a $3500 cost commitment for the event we couldn't wait any longer with only 6 people actually registered.

[Nocte]

Wow Nocte, you hit it on nail on the head. We suck and cost too much. I don't know what I didn't realize that before. You're a genius. I think the real reason is that we are too realistic. People tend to want watered down versions of military simulations where they can use their unrealistic rates of fire and magazine capacities to play a slightly improved paintball game.

Criticism is hard to take, and I suppose you weren't really asking for it. I'll overlook the snippyness. I would agree that your goals in realism may be a bit high for the large-scale airsoft audience. This was the basis of my suggestion - spend less money on the expensive details that make everything as authentic as possible, put on the game that the bulk audience wants, not the game you want, or don't be surprised when only you are your local buddies show up.

Airsoft IS watered down from real military simulation, from the way the replicas are built to the way the game is played. You can shoot your buddies without them dying or going to jail. You can engage in a mock war without having to get deployed, and you get to go back to your real life at the end of the day. It was my understanding that this is the appeal of airsoft. Your events tend to remove this appealing convenience.

I know we don't suck because people spend upwards of $1000 to attend our events and some even more. We get people from all over the United States and even the world. While you don't think our events are worth $80 there are people from Sweden and the UK who pay $1400 just to fly out to our events and they do it several times. Most of our participants come from out of the region, SoCal, Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, New York, New Jersey, Texas, Alabama and they come over and over.

Some people have expendable income. Even less people have the kind of expendable income to be able to spend $1000 on one airsoft event. Justifying your event costs based on these select few is like justifying spending $25k on a grilled cheese sandwich that looks like Jesus just because SOMEONE bought that on eBay.

We have a niche market for sure. But we are not a shitty Honda but thanks for the comparison.

No prob. Hey, thanks for taking my self-admitted arbitrary analogy too personally. You definitely have a niche market. This seems to be the issue you're complaining about. Take care, Jason.

[Matt]

Damn, I was looking forward to hearing about this event.

Lots of events to choose from these days, and high gas prices too. The market is flooded with events from southern oregon all the way up to central washington from multiple companies and teams. People seem to be scattered all over the place.

[hellmutt]

You have to remember that for the majority, airsoft is merely recreation. They prefer a lighter dose of simulation.

I know. It's too bad though. I blame video games!

Seriously though, once you start down the road to realism it is hard to turn back. It's not the military, not even close but there is nothing more rewarding then doing something that is hard and then succeeding. There are nothing like the bonds that develop between participants, the real emotional involvement and the real friendships that develop when tested "under fire". It's all about fun, we just like to have a "harder" fun.

[hellmutt]

This was the basis of my suggestion - spend less money on the expensive details that make everything as authentic as possible, put on the game that the bulk audience wants, not the game you want, or don't be surprised when only you are your local buddies show up.

I see your point but isn't that what everyone else is doing? Why bring a product to market that is just like eveyone elses? We are not trying to hold "the largest" games. We are not trying to create events for the masses - there are already people who do that. We go to those events and hear the people say, "we want more then this, we want it more real". Thus we saw a need and tried to fill it. We try to make the most realistic simulations in airsoft. Watering that down is not really an option as it would betray what we are at our core and what the audience we appeal to wants. We cannot serve two masters - we tried that at GSIII and it really didn't work well at all. We don't need 200 or even 100 people to come to an event but 6 isn't going to cut it. I understand fully that we are not a mass market product and that is not my complaint. In fact, I am not really complaining at all.

What I do know is there ARE teams and groups of people who want to take airsoft to the next level. I know there are people who want more then shooting at masses of tennis shoe'd kids in $150 multicam. I know that there are people who want to participate in events that test them, not just entertain them. People don't climb mountains because it is easy, they do it because the reward is greater then hiking in a park.